Salaam,
This is going to be the last post from me for a few weeks now. I have some matters that need my urgent attention and I must take a couple of weeks away from my duties here. I do not intend to be away for more than a few weeks however, if I have to be away longer than I have planned, I will let you all know. Yes yes before you start, no there are no issues and the Jamaat hasn't scared me off and no one is in trouble, I just have other things that need seeing to. These 'things' are mostly work related. I have slacked off for far too long before and after the Christmas period and as the financial year is coming to an end, the pressure is on to get things in order and wrapped up. I would also advise that I will not be checking emails, so if you do need to contact me, please hold off for a few weeks. That said, I plan to change my email address and find one that works better with proxies as hotmail is an absolute nightmare. When it is set up I will then be able to reply to those that do email more often and more promptly. insha'Allah. Comments for all posts will now be locked to relieve my friend from her moderation duties, but I will allow comments for this particular piece so we can hear from our Canadian readers in particular.
As I don't have the time to scan or censor any documents so in this instance, I will leave you with something that ties in nicely with the post I put up on Sunday RE: Canadian Expulsion Checklist.
A revert to Islam from Ahmadiyya in Canada emailed me a few months back and alerted me to the shady character of the Canadian branch of the Ahmadiyya Cult, Deputy President (Naib Ameer) Khalifa Abdul Aziz. His position within the Cult, for the benefit of those not in Canada and those not familiar with him, can be confirmed by clicking on this link. He requested that I write something up about this Khalifa character, to elucidate the very apparent hypocrisy and mistreatment of ordinary Ahmadis in the Canadian Jamaat.
Khalifa Abdul Aziz is a disbarred and convicted lawyer who lost his license to practise law in Canada due to financial fraud and misconduct, involving mortgages of more than 30 properties in Ontario. On doing some research and on asking around some contacts here in London, I am under the impression that this fraud allegedly involved the Ahamadiyya housing complex in Maple known as 'Peace Village'. However, I must emphasise that I am unable to verify this, but this was told to me by a couple of sources here in London and a cross check with a relative in Canada seemed to confirm this.
A quick search of 'Khalifa Abdul Aziz Canada' on Google returned this:
Abdul Aziz Khalifa (1971), of the Town of Vaughan, was found guilty of professional misconduct for: participating in a dishonest, fraudulent, criminal or illegal scheme to obtain mortgage financing based on inflated purchase prices concerning 30 properties; failing to serve his mortgagee clients; acting for all the parties, namely the vendors, purchasers/mortgagors and the lenders/mortgagees, to several real estate transactions, where there was a conflicting interest without providing adequate disclosure to or obtaining the consent of his mortgagee clients and without advising all his clients that no information received in connection with these transactions could be treated as confidential vis-à-vis the other parties; and failing to disclose to his mortgagee clients his ongoing relationship with 8 individuals/companies and recommend that they obtain independent legal advice.
By Decision and Order dated June 20, 2006, the Hearing Panel ordered that:
- The Member be granted permission to resign his membership in the Law Society within 30 days, failing which he is disbarred.
- The Member pay costs of $1,000 within 30 days.
(Counsel for the Society, Naomi Overend/ Member not present and not represented)
(The Member's resignation became effective June 29, 2006)
http://www.lsuc.on.ca/with.aspx?id=636
The Ahmadiyya Jamaat Canada is co-run by a dodgy lawyer found guilty of financial fraud, involving a significant number of properties back in 2006, and he stills holds this position today! If you note from the above extract taken from the LSUC website, it states that 'the member's resignation became effective June 29 2006', and so it seems Abdul Aziz Khalifa accepted his guilt and handed in his resignation. If he was not guilty and it was a misunderstanding, he would have fought the ruling to save his career and reputation but obviously not, because the odds were stacked up against him. For those Ahmadis that will say 'but he wasn't even Vice President in those days but was given the job afterwards, once he had repented' please click here where you will be able to confirm that Abdul Aziz Khalifa held this position at the time of his conviction. He still holds this position today.
It's funny when Ahmadi propagandists swear blindly that no senior member of the Ahmadiyya Cult has ever had run in with the law, let alone be convicted for fraud, and boast that all AhmadisAziz Khalifa, where it is alleged that the financial fraud in which he was found guilty of involved the world famous Ahmadiyya owned Peace Village. Er Hello, did this not set off alarm bells for the Canadian members? Why is it that the Canadian Cult Jamaat did not take action against him, and why was he allowed to continue in such a prominent position? His character is questionable but he has been given the authority to lead the Ahmadi people in Canada, how does that figure?
In the UK, we have Nasser Khan for example, whose wife was convicted of Perjury and no action has been taken against him but at least his wife's misdemeanour did not involve the Jamaat as such! Canada is one of the biggest communities of the Ahmadiyya Cult worldwide, yet one of its most senior administrative leaders is a disbarred lawyer, found guilty of fraud and misconduct? Is that the best you can do? Does Mas know about Abdul Aziz Khalifa's case? If so, why is the 'Khalifa' turning a blind eye and letting this man continue to lord it over the Canadian Ahmadis? Does Mas have any principles? Clearly not but you insist on selling him as the 'Man of the Muslims' and expecting people to buy it? Please! What an insult! You Ahmadis need to understand just because Mas 'bhoot pyar karne waley hain' (he is so loving) it doesn't make him a Khalifa. Drop the love and pick up some reality because not only is he the worst leader of any group of people but he isn't as loving as you think....
Abdul Aziz Khalifa, you pathetic hypocrite and nasty little man, you have absolutely no qualms in participating in the very public expulsion of members from the community for 'participating in a marriage against the teachings of Nizaame Jamaat', but you present a different face to western leaders of the State you live in. Abdul Aziz Khalifa, you are beyond contempt and a man with no integrity and morals, where you participate in the financial fraud involving 30 properties, but you present an image of being one where you are a member of an international community that boasts 'loyalty to State'. Abdul Aziz Khalifa, you were found guilty of misconduct and were banned from practising law but you very proudly stamp your name on letters authorising the expulsion of innocent and law abiding citizens?!
You were banned in 2006 but in 2011 you kindly authorised this:
You should have expelled yourself while you were at it. Why is it that there is one rule for the likes of you whereas for ordinary Ahmadis with absolutely no power, are treated like lepers and are subjected to public expulsions, resulting in social boycotting and the like? Why is it that there is such a system in place in the first place, if it doesn't apply to everyone? Why do you advocate such treatment of your fellow members but no action was taken against you, for a crime that resulted in you losing your job? This is serious! Why are you still in the Jamaat, let alone in such a position? Why was no action taken against you? Why did you not stand down, if you were a man of any principle? You are a disgrace and a hypocritical despot.
It is shocking to see just how many Ahmadis are accepting of such blatant hypocrisy. What is wrong with you? Forget what I believe, but if you believe this is Allah's Jamaat and you love it so dearly, then why do you insist on turning a blind eye? It is up to you to keep your Jamaat clean because you quite clearly cannot rely on your administration to do it, because they need a good wash down themselves!Do the right thing. This is a disgrace. Shame on you all who allowed this man to continue while he shamelessly helps run your Jamaat with an iron fist. And you have the nerve to poke fun at the Muslim world for it's fair share of tyrants and dictators but the difference is that this Muslims don't claim to belong to a divine sect.
For those Canadians who have access to similar Jamaat documents or anything that the Jamaat would rather not go public, I suggest you set up something similar and start exposing these scumbags for what they really are. It is not that difficult and it would be a great shame and an utter injustice against your fellow people if you kept quiet about it. Your State should know exactly what kind of spiritual thugs they are wining and dining with. They are disgusting and Abdul Aziz Khalifa is probably not an exception.
That's all from me for next few weeks. Try not to miss me too much!
It is shocking to see just how many Ahmadis are accepting of such blatant hypocrisy. What is wrong with you? Forget what I believe, but if you believe this is Allah's Jamaat and you love it so dearly, then why do you insist on turning a blind eye? It is up to you to keep your Jamaat clean because you quite clearly cannot rely on your administration to do it, because they need a good wash down themselves!Do the right thing. This is a disgrace. Shame on you all who allowed this man to continue while he shamelessly helps run your Jamaat with an iron fist. And you have the nerve to poke fun at the Muslim world for it's fair share of tyrants and dictators but the difference is that this Muslims don't claim to belong to a divine sect.
For those Canadians who have access to similar Jamaat documents or anything that the Jamaat would rather not go public, I suggest you set up something similar and start exposing these scumbags for what they really are. It is not that difficult and it would be a great shame and an utter injustice against your fellow people if you kept quiet about it. Your State should know exactly what kind of spiritual thugs they are wining and dining with. They are disgusting and Abdul Aziz Khalifa is probably not an exception.
That's all from me for next few weeks. Try not to miss me too much!
So how can this ahmadiyya jammat claim it is Allah's jamaat, to be honest I think it is rather insulting to say it is Allah's jamaat with the amount of corruption that goes on! shame on you quadiyanis!
ReplyDeleteI know.
Deletehows that dissertation coming along?
ReplyDeletewhat mosque are you talking about? they don't even encourage you to attend. tut tut
ReplyDeletewhy you stopping comments? what's with the LOLOLOLOL response? is that all you can respond with?
lame.
To those who keep mentioning Muslim mosques not allowing women to pray in them - or perhaps better put "that there is no purpose designed space for them" - a few things need to be mentioned:
Delete-Yes, it is a common practice amongst the Ind/Pak/Bang communities to do so. It seems to be quite fixed into their cultures - and perhaps it is something that will take its time to change. However, as far as I am aware, it is not completely unestablished (Sharia wise) as I believe there is a statement from Umer (ra) regarding the matter. & Before everyone jumps down my throat saying how the prophet (saw) never forbade it, and the number of countless hadith mentioning how the women companions and the wives of the prophet (saw) went to the mosques - I am just saying, it appears to be a Hanafi opinion that is not completely baseless (although this has to be checked).
& remember statements of the Khulafa get included into the sunnah - so if it is a statement, then it is for the place of Muslim scholars to make it clear for the general Muslim.
-If you however look at the Arabs, their mosques are all built with places for women - and you will find many of them attending all 5 prayers.
Everyday we have sisters coming to Fajr prayer here and Isha prayers - and many of them sit in and have classes.
-I do not know what it is like in the far east (perhaps someone who has knowledge of Islam in Indonesia or Malaysia.. or Muslim lands in that region can share on what happens out there regarding women in mosques) - but from what I see here from the students from that region - it appears that their mosques are open to both men/women
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So - and it seems that many groups (not just the Ahmediyya) believe to have one over the Muslims because they provide spaces for women to pray in their 'prayer areas' - but this is not the case with many communities outside of the Asian sub-continent mosques & if we look at the US, most of the mosques have spaces for women - and it is generally like that for mosuqes in the UK that are largish.
Wa Allahu Alam
Every mosque has some sort of space for women, but you have to admit Ahmadi mosques have larger prayer halls for women than other mosques? Ahmadi women also attend the mosque for Eid prayer whereas there is no concept of Eid prayer for the ladies in the UK. I cannot think of a single Muslim woman outside the jamaat that attends the mosque for EID, they are too busy getting dolled up while their husbands are at the mosque. This is the total opposite with the Ahmadiyya jamaat.
DeleteLet's be honest, do you take your mother/sister/wife along with you to the mosque on that blessed day of Eid?
You said "perhaps it is 'something' that will take its time to change", maybe this is one of the reasons the Messiah was required to revive true Islam.
I will have to answer your post part by part - so please bare with me inshaAllah:
Delete1. Ahmedi mosques in the UK are actually quite few in number. There are some areas in East London that have the same number of mosques then the Ahmediyya Jamat in the UK (for example, near Green Street, some roads have up to 4 or 5 mosuqes) - so to say that there are more spaces is true, but many mosques we have in the UK for the muslims are free spaces taken and then either converted into Mosques - or used as prayer facilities. (e.g. houses or old buildings that were purchased for a prayer area)
If you look at the buildings that were specifically designed for mosques, for example, Regents Park mosque, or ELM in London, or in Birmingham, Lecister, Bradford etc... you will find them with huge spaces for sisters. I dont think that what you guys have in Morden is as much as the sisters side in ELM in East London - they have a huge 10 story building dedicated for sisters which is also during the day used as a full time school.
2. To be honest - Muslim women going to Eid prayer inside the UK and outside is very common. You just need to pop to Regents park on Eid day and you will find thousands of them walking around. The same is with all the main mosques. There are even some organisations (like 1Eid for example) that hire out parks for Eid prayers and perhaps 10's of thousands of Muslims in the UK attend, both men and women. I am afraid to say that the Ahmediyya community has very little idea of what the Muslim community is like outside of what happens in Tooting and some other small areas in London - they have not really seen the other major communities like the Arab communities and the far eastern communities. Like I said, just pop to their areas and see what happens.
Here in Egypt - on Eid day - its maddness - everyone is out praying in the mosques, both men and women - in fact, I dont think any one is left in the house (a good day for a robber if you ask me...)
3. And finally - I said regarding the Indian Sub-continent - perhaps it is something that will take time to change - and perhaps it wont change. And like I also mentioned - they might have islamic justification for the position that they hold - it does not necessarily have to be something that Mirza had to fix.
But, it must be added - the rest of the Muslim ummah is very open to sisters praying - I was just talking about one aspect of culture that seems to be in Pakistanis/Indians and Bengalis.
As always - Allah (swt) knows best in all matters
Ahmedi mosques are fewer in number because of the number of Ahmadi Muslims in the UK. Not sure about numbers but they must be around 20 thousand? Maybe more? I don't know I'm just guessing.
DeleteI have visited the ELM before so not so sure why you think Ahmadis would have no knowledge of what's outside their community. I can't say the experience was great as everything was in Bengali.
You say that it is common practice for women to attend the mosque on Eid day but I was going by observation whilst actually studying/living in London. None of the Muslimah I know attend this prayer, neither do their mothers or sisters. As for the thousands of women walking around Regents park on Eid day, only a few hundred out of these would be praying in the mosque because of the lack of space, so where does that leave the other thousands?
I just had a look at the Eid convention held by the organisation you mentioned 1Eid. It actually looks like a mixed version of the Ahmadiyya Jalsa Salana. There doesn't seem to be much segregation, hence purdah. I wouldn't be comfortable attending such function with my family. And I note the same situation at non Ahamdi Muslim weddings.
Allah knows best indeed.
For an Ahmedi who has gone to other mosques, or even experienced some of what goes on with the Muslim community - you have done something that most do not do - but, it is a good thing.
DeleteI ask that Allah (swt) guides you to Islam
As for answering your points - The majority of ELM's Muslim community is Bengali - so it is why you will find some of what goes on in there is done for them. However, the majority (and I would say nearly all) of events or classes is done in English and by Imams/teachers who I would say English is either their best tongue, or as good as their mother tongue. So I am not sure what you witnessed - but it is not the case for 90% of what goes on in ELM.
As for the problem of the sisters not beign able to pray in Regents Park - that is not technically true because they have rolling Eid prayers - and some years they have up to 8-9 different Eid prayers from as early as 6am until nearly 11am - as one finishes, another one begins. Anyone who goes to ELM/Regents and wants to pray can do so.
The masses that you see outside are just moving from one prayer either out, or going in - or are just chilling outside.
It is technically the Sunna is to do it in open spaces, and that is what all the haidth of the prophet (saw) point towards - thus mosques are not places for the Eid prayer (not that it is not allowed before everyone says I said it was haram!) - but it is why you will find people like 1Eid trying to revive the sunnah. As for it being mixed - I have not gone to one, but I know the organiser v.well and to say that he would set up a free-mixing event is somethign that I cannot believe - sorry.
As for the issue of mixing at events/weddings - this is the choice of the person who is arranging it or attending it. You will find many muslims having mixed weddings and holding mixed events - and that is just them not doing what they are meant to do.
However, some of my family who are Ahmedi couldnt do a segregated event it they tried - and they have weekly family do's that are mixed - so that is not something that can be placed on religion - rather those who follow it.
Alhumdullilah I am rightly guided to true Islam. Thank you for your prayers.
DeleteWhen you say many muslims have mixed weddings you are actually referring to the majority of muslims. It can't just be a coincidence that all the non Ahmadi Muslim weddings I have been to have all been mixed. I am glad that your realise this is not what the majority of Muslims are meant to do.
I did paste a video link of last year's EId ul Adha organised by 1Eid but I guess the owner of this blog didn't want the readers to see your example of true Islam. However anyone can search the event on youtube. In fact even the main advertisement for the event shows such mixed gathering. And it seems many Muslims are not happy by reading the comments. Maybe you need to have words with the organizer for future events.
Also I only just recently attended a Muslim wedding in East London. The Imam who read the Nikah was actually a Mullah from the ELM. You see my friends are Bengalis. The wedding was completely MIXED. Why do these Mullahs not see this type of gathering as wrong but you do?
DeleteBad practice of religion exists in every faith in every time period. We have examples of some of the companions of the prophet (saw) making mistakes - to the point where the propeht (saw) stonned a women for fornication. We have hadith relating to sahaba being lashed for drinking. Theire were cases where some of them were also punished for the spreading of gossip of A'isha (ra) - and even theft took place during the time of the propeht (saw).
DeleteSo - us living in a time 1400 years after his prime guidence does not mean that Muslims will not make mistakes - rather, we will more likely have much more then they did then.
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Muslims having mixed weddings - like I said, is no shock to anyone.
However, as I mentioned - I have family who are Ahmediyya (some v.devoted and high in the system) - and I have yet to attend something of theirs that is not-mixed except if they hold it in one of their religious venues like Morden (where they are forced to part ways).
I mean - I know many Ahmedis who for their Eid outings will hire out a bar/resturant and go out in huge numbers and sit there and eat. Not only is the food they eat not slaughtered Islamically - but only downstairs there is a pub where people are drinking. They justify it in many round about ways... but its a huge problem Islamically - and they claim to follow the Islamic laws - but they will eaily brush over these topics.
So picking on these things is not really the point - everyone knows where Islam stands on the issue of mixing - and Alhumdulillah, some Muslims will follow it, where as others fall short and we can only ask Allah (swt) to forgive all our short-comings.
I dont know the Imam you are refering to - but I know many of the Imams well in ELM and I know non of them would have gone to such an event knowing it was mixed - either he didnt know, or he wasnt an actual Imam of the mosque.
Wa Allahu A'lam
Just to let you know ahmadis are not whiter than white when it comes to mixed genders in marriage ceremonies, only last year I attended a mixed gender wedding (Khokhar family) where even the murrabi said it was ok, maybe he said it was ok because this person married a white person, need I say more, even my mother was shocked to hear what the murrabi had said. I am sure there are numerous functions where ahmadis attend where there are mixed genders, last year at a wedding exhibition the amount of ahmadi families I saw without purdah, I wonder if Masroor knows?!?
DeleteDOUBLE STANDARDS AS ALWAYS!
I do not see what your point is then or the purpose of this blog.
DeleteMuslims will make mistakes, whether they are Ahmadi or non Ahmadi because of the 1400 year time lapse. So what's all the fuss about then with the admin of the Ahmadiyya Jamaah? It should be 'no shock' to anyone.
Alcohol is available at EVERY restaurant and many of the 'Muslim' owned restaurants here too so where does one go to celebrate Eid? Not much options living in the western world. People are drinking EVERYWHERE. As long as we refrain from this practice it's all good.
Issue of halal food is another topic itself. We have Muslims here with long beards telling us this meat is haram whilst SELLING it to their customers. Hypocrisy exists everywhere it seems.
With all that mentioned I do not see how you are better off than me.
Also regarding 'Ahmedi outings', are you referring to the Ahmadiyya jamaat or the Ahmedi family?
DeleteThe point of my earlier comment was responding to your post (or because everyone is anon. on here, it might have been another sister) about how Muslim mosques do provide areas of prayer for women (and that the Indian sub-continent is perhaps the least practicing in this issue) and also that 'unislamic practices' exist - but it doesnt mean that Islam teacher so.
DeleteRegarding Alcohol - Please also remember that the prophet (saw) cursed those who sell it - and when the prophet (saw) cursed a group - it usually meant that the sin was major and not to be brushed off lightly.
There are also narrations stopping people being in the area where it is drunk - so, Islam doesnt just not allow us to drink it - rather, we have to refrain from a lot more then that.
One of the major scholars called Ibn Taymiyya (ra) has many opinions about anything leading to sin as being haram in and of itself - and how many a (young) Muslim falls into the issue of drinking by being surrounded by its environment.
Just because Alcohol is wide spread in the UK/States doesnt mean you cannot stay away from it.
It is not a compulsion to go to out to eat in these places and in the UK there are hundreds of Muslim owned places where there is no beer sold or brought in.
As for Eid - You also have other options of hiring places and bringing in your own food... to be honest, the list goes on about how easy it really is to stay away from it.
As for halal foods - although it is a large discussion - and perhaps something not for this blog - there is a very easy answer to it. Allah (swt) says that we are to eat Halal food - slaughtered according to the Sharia. Those who do not, except in cases where they are forced into it are gaining sins
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As for your last point - the issues discussed here are branched discussions to a major difference between Islam and the Ahmediyya religion.
As Ahmediyyas technically follow a lot of the 'laws of Islam' - there will be those who do it as it is meant to, and there will be those who dont. Much like Muslims will practice Islam properly, and other wont.
But - The crux of the matter will boil down to you claiming a person being a prophet after the prophet Muhammad (saw) closed that door 1400 years ago.
Until you accept this principal, we will go around and around defending our positions about sub-matters - and unfortunately, since most poeple who blog, do so with bad manners - the dawah of the Muslims to the Ahmediyya is ruined.
We ask Allah (swt) to guide the Ahmediyya to Islam and to keep us all on the straight path
The door cannot be closed forever if the Messiah is to come knocking one day.
DeleteOf course one should not sell alcohol and yes we should give importance to eating halal food.
And for the record it's Ahmadiyya not Ahmediyya.
Apologies for bad speilling.
DeleteThe issue is not about Isa (as) returning as a prophet - to be quite frank - no Muslim has a real issue with this - we are all waiting for it afterall.
If Mirza Gullam had simply said he was Isa (as) then, it would be easy to know if he was the real deal or not - and that would be to see if he fit the descriptions set by the prophet Muhammad (saw) and also if he did all that was predicted he would do. Also, if what he said about the future was true.
I wont delve into this for the moment - because my problem isnt with his claim to be Isa (as) - many have done so and many will continue to do so - and all of them keep failing until the real Isa (as) does come and that will be in Syria and fights with his army as the prophet (saw) said he would do so.
The real issue for us Muslims lies in Mirza Gullam saying the door of prophethood is still open - i.e. possibly hundreds of new prophets could come and be from Allah (swt).
This cracks the Islamic foundation - and for someone to say such a statement either doesnt know the meaning of Islams basic pillars - or is a liar.
As for the last guys post about diverting off topic - again, apologies to you - and your point is valid in that the issue about this man working in the Canadian Jamat should be addressed by those who follow his religion
Al these answers refer to the likes of Osama Bin Laden. Do you think the Messiah will be like him?
DeleteThe messenger of Allah (saw) said that when Isa (as) returns - he will fight wars, and kill the Ad-Dajal.
DeleteHe will also have an army with him. These hadith can be found in the Sahih books of hadith - and they are crystal clear.
I cannot do any more then to accept what the messenger (saw) told me about Isa (as) and the Mehdi and what will come about at the end of time. If I did otherwise - I would not be a true Muslim.
Please also remember, the messenger of Allah (swt) faught in over 20 battles himself - many of them very bloody - and he was even hurt in some of them - and many of his companions and family members died during his time because of War.
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My only question is though - how do you explain Mirza Gullam allowing more and more prophets to come after the prophet Muhammad (saw) when he said that he was the last prophet. (I dont want an aswer regarding Isa (as) returning and being a prophet - rather an answer to many prophets still being able to come afterwards)
I have edited the hadith extracting most of what was said about Isa (as) and Ad-Dajaal. For the full haidth, please read it in Sahih Muslim:
DeleteIt was narrated that An-Nawwas bin Sam’an (ra) said: “The Messenger of Allah (saw) mentioned the Dajjal one morning... He will emerge in a place between Ash-Sham and Al-Iraq, and will spread mischief right and left. O slaves of Allah, be steadfast.
"We said (i.e. the companions asked the prophet (saw)): ‘O Messenger of Allah, how quickly will he travel through the land?’ He said: ‘Like a cloud driven by the wind. he will come to a people and call them, and they will believe in him, and respond to his call...
"Then while he is like that, Allah will send Al-Masih the son of Mariam (as) who will descend to the white minaret in the east of Damascus, wearing two Mahrudh garments, placing his hands on the wings of two angels. When he lowers his head it (water) will drip, and when he raises it, it will scatter drops like pearls. Every disbeliever whom his breath reaches will die, and his breath will reach as far as he can see...
"He will pursue him (the Dajjal) until he catches him at the gate of Ludd (Lod) , and kills him..."
The second part of the hadith talks about Ya'juj and Ma'juj:
Delete"And Allah will send Ya’juj and Ma’juj, who will swarm down from every slope. The first of them will pass by the Lake of Tiberias and will drink what is in it, and the last of them will pass it and say: “There was once water here.” Then Isa (as) the Prophet of Allah and his companions will be besieged...
The Prophet of Allah, Isa (as) and his companions will beseech [Allah], and Allah will send worms in their necks, and in the morning, they will all perish as one. Then the Prophet of Allah Isa (as) and his companions will come down to the earth, and they will not find a spot the size of a handspan on earth that is not filled with their putrefaction and stench. The Prophet of Allah, Isa (as), and his companions will beseech Allah, and Allah will send birds like the necks of Bacterian camels, which will carry them and throw them wherever Allah wills. Then Allah will send rain which will not be kept out by any house of clay or hair; it will wash the earth and leave it like a mirror. Then it will be said to the earth: “Bring forth your fruits and restore your blessing.” On that day a group of people will eat from a pomegranate and shelter beneath its skin. Milk will be blessed until a milch camel will be sufficient for a crowd of people, and a milch cow will be sufficient for a tribe of people, and a milch sheep will be sufficient for a family of people. Then while they are like that, Allah will send a pleasant wind which will seize them beneath their armpits, taking the soul of every believer and every Muslim. The most evil of people left will be left, and they will fornicate like donkeys, and upon them the Hour will come.
Do you really think people will shelter beneath the skin of a pomegranate? Do you honestly believe everything mentioned in the above hadith is literal?
DeleteIf prophethood of all kinds had to come to an end after Holy Prophet (saw), then why did he declare the coming "Jesus" (Promised Messiah) as Nabiullah (Prophet of Allah)? Why is it that the majority of the Muslim world still awaits the coming of PROPHET "Jesus" AFTER Holy Prophet? You will say he is an old prophet so he can come while a new prophet can't be born now! Why? What logic does that argument have? Its like saying that we can allow prophethood from the backdoor but the front door is closed for ever.
DeleteSecondly the matter is not that of old or new. The matter is if there is a need of a prophet or not? According to your own understanding of Islam there is a need of a prophet and that is of Jesus. So you can't have it both ways. Also we believe that Holy Prophet (saw) is the last law-bearing prophet. He is the perfect and the best prophet. This is why when he said that I am the last prophet and my mosque is the last prophet, that only meant that he is the last not in chronoligical order rather in status meaning the highest. In many languages this word last is used in the meaning of best or the ultimate. Now these are also the words of Holy Prophet (saw) that are reported in the books of hadith centuries before Ahmadiyyat came into existance:
Abu Bakr is the most exalted person AFTER me EXCEPT if there happens to be a PROPHET. (Kanzul A'maal, vol. 9, p138)
Then there is another hadith:
"AN IBNI 'ABBAASIN QAALA LAMMAA MAATA IBRAAHEEM UBNU RASOOLILLAHI SALLA ALLAHU ALAIHI WASALLAMA SALLAA RASOOLULLAHI SALLALLAHU ALAIHI WA SALLAMA WA QAALA INNA LAHU MURZI'AN FIL JANNATI WA LAU 'AASHALA KAANA SIDDEEQAN NABIYYAA"IT IS NARRATED BY HAZRAT IBNE ABBAAS (R.A.) THAT WHEN IBRAHIM, SON OF THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH PASSED AWAY, THE PROPHET (PBUH) SAID HIS FUNERAL PRAYER AND SAID THAT THERE IS A NURSE FOR HIM IN PARADISE AND IF HE HAD LIVED HE WOULD HAVE BEEN A TRUE PROPHET (Ibne Maja vol. 1, Kitaabal Janaiz, p. 237)
Had there been no possibility of any kind of prophet after Holy Prophet (saw), he would have not said these words. He should have rather said that even if he had lived he could never have become a prophet because there is no prophet of anykind after me.
If you seriously believe all the hadith mentioned above to be literal, can you please tell me what you think the Al-Dajaal is? Is it a one eye'd monster that will ride a donkey or not? If it is not then please let me know what the majority of Muslims believe regarding this?
InshaAllah - I will answer one post at a time:
DeleteAs to the first post (I will answer the second shortly inshaAllah):
Until we Muslims have evidence to point otherwise - the scholars are told to go by literal meanings.
Allah (swt) said in the Qur'an that it is 'Al-Qur'an Al-Mubeen' - i.e. clear and according to the understanding of the people.
And quite frankly - most hadith that talk about the future - they come out being very literal.
The prophet (saw) said at the end of time - women would be clothed - but as if they wouldnt be wearing anything.
The scholars could have in the past interpreted this in millions of ways - but they didnt, rather they left it until it came apparent to us now what this really means... I advise you to look up old scholarly writings on the hadith that talk about the end of times - you will find that it is very common for the scholars to not say anything except what is apparent from the words of the prophet (saw).
Another example is when the prophet (saw) was born - that year (known as the year of the elephant) - Allah (swt) sent an army of birds to kill Abraza and his army as they tried to destroy the Ka'bah.
They came with stones from the hell-fire and these stones ripped through the people as if they were lasers or something.
There are countless accounts of this happening that have reached us (even though this event was before Islam) - what interpretation will we use here?
We go by what Allah (swt) says in the Qur'an and that all we are asked to do - especailly if the scholars agree on it.
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The prophet (saw) said that Isa (as) would decend and fight with an army and kill the Ad-Dajal.
He also said the Ad-Dajal would look like a certain person (that lived at the time of the prophet (saw)) and that he would have one eye.
I cannot start to say that it could mean this or it could mean that... otherwise we have no religion except that it is open to all kinds of interpretation.
Even Qur'an tafsir is very (very) limited in what the scholars allow for interpretation outside the statements of the prophet (saw) and the companions.
So - yes, I believe the words of the prophet (saw) as they are - especially when the scholars agree that - for the moment, we take it as it is.
We ask Allah (swt) to increase us in beneficial knowledge.
As for the second post - I apologise if this ends up being a little long, but you have mentioned a lot in your post that needs addressing. I will also at the end answer your questions inshaAllah:
Delete-Firstly
We need to clarify where Islam stands with regards to the finality of prophethood using the words of Allah (swt) and his messenger (saw). It is clear that both have said that the door of prophethood is closed:
1. Allah (swt) said in Surah Al-Ahzaab that Muhammad (saw) is the last.
The debate about it meaning seal or end is not a very strong argument because as we know from different Qiraa'at of Qur'an, Allah (swt) has used the word Khaatim and Khaatam - i.e. seal and last. Plus the seal of something usually means the end of it. If you want to argue that he (saw) is also the best - I have no problem, but you cannot replace it with last.
2. The prophet (saw) has said regarding his finality tens of hadith, differently worded using:
a) I am Khatam An-Nabiyeen, b) I am the Last (Al-Akhir) Prophet, c) No Prophet will come after me, d) I am last in respect of prophethood the like of a house and I am its last brick, e) The components of Prophethood have been closed, except 1 part, Mubashirat (true dreams) e) If there had been a prophet after me it would have been Umer (ra), f) Ali (ra) to me is like Haroon (as) to Musa (as) except after me there is no prophet
I dont know how anyone can after his say that prophethood is still open. If so - please explain how this is so?
-Secondly
The decending of Isa (as) - i.e. why and if he is needed. To be honst, I have not actually read the scholars statements as to the (hikim) wisdom of why Allah (swt) raised Isa (as) not the (asbaab) reasons for it. I am sure the old books have much to say on the matter - but I have not yet read on it - but inshaAllah, I will do so at some point.
But it is clear that his decent is not something that just has implications to Islam. There is a link between his decent and the religions of Christianity and Jewdaism. It is Isa (as) that divides all three religions in terms of prophets - and he is the point of difference. But as to why, I dont know what Islam says on the matter except that Allah (swt) says that he raised him to him and that the prophet (saw) said he will decend and play a part during the end of time.
Thirdly -
DeleteThe prophet said if he had lived (i.e. Ibraheem (as) - he would have been a prophet. He said the same about Umer (i.e. that if there had been a prophet after him (saw) it would have been Umer (ra)). The fact that Allah (swt) chose to take Ibraheem (as) when he was a child is that he had sealed prophethood with Muhammad (saw) - and also the verse is in Al-Ahzaab begins by saying that Muhammad (saw) is not the father of any man.
But like I said - even with this hadith - if we combine it with the hadith of the prophet (saw) sayin that nothing remains of prophethood except things like dreams - or that the scholars have the roles of prophets. Even when he (saw) said that at the head of every generation will be a reviver - he could have said prophet - or Allah (swt) could have sent an actual prophet - but he chose a special person from amongst the ummah of Muhammad (saw).
Fourthly -
Do we need prophets? Well quite frankly - Allah (swt) has left us with all we need - the Qur'an and the Sunna of his messenger (saw). The prophet (saw) said if we cling to these we will not go astray.
In terms of do people need prophets? Well the prophet (saw) said that the biggest trial will be at his death. If we needed a prophet - why did Allah (swt) not send one at the death of Muhammad (saw). In fact, the other large trail that the Muslims face is the time of Ad-Dajal - perhaps why this is the time Isa (as) returns - to take care of him - Allah u A'lam.
So as to us needing prophets - why wait 1300 years before Mirza came? Why not before that when Iraq was invaded by the Ta'tars? Or when Uthman (ra) went through the fitnah?
Why dont we have prophets in the UK and America - we need people to lead us? Why didnt we get one when the Khalifa fell in the 1920s, or when the Jews took control of much of Palestine? That argument is not a strong one since it can be argued at any time prophethood is needed - and if we look at the Beni Israil - it is narrated that at one point, there was amongst then over 200 prophets (at one time) and they were killed and lied upon?
Finally inshaAllah - what do the Muslims believe regarding Ad-Dajal - we believe what the prophet (saw) said about him. And his description is very clear if you combine all the hadith on it. I suggest you read Ibn Kathirs end of time book - he has combined most the hadith on Ad-Dajal - and it is clear that it is a man with one eye and he will be killed by Isa (as).
As always - Allah (swt) is Al-Aleem and we ask him to increase us
Quran definitely speaks of itself as Kitabul Mubeen (clear Book) but at the same time in the very beginning of its second chapter, it also makes it clear that it is a Book of Guidance for only those who are Muttaqeen (Hudallil Muttaqeen - guidance for the righteous). So those whose hearts are devoid of righteousness DO NOT UNDERSTAND it.
DeleteIf everything in the Quran has to be taken literally then why don't you take the verse that calls your spouses as garments for each other too literally? Why don't you take the verse that talks about your wives as your tilth take literally too? Usage of Aql is highly encouraged by Allah Almighty repeatedly in the Holy Quran. Kindly do not associate your own absurdities to the Holy Quran.
What is the need of another prophet with in Islam despite having one Book and one Sunnah? The answer is very simple. It is due to different interpretations! Despite having one Quran and one Sunnah, look around and see what kind of activities Muslims are indulged in from North to South and East to West. Everyone claims to be following the same Quran and Sunnah, but one is prostrating before graves, and the other is worshipping "Imam Hussain's Horse"! Like seriously? One is killing in the name of Islam and the other is usurping the rights of others in the name of Islam. Who is right and who is wrong? Who will decide? The answer has already been given by the Holy Prophet (saw) more than 1400 years ago when he declared Imam Mahdi and Promised Messiah the Hakam and Adal (the one who distinguishes right from wrong).
When you want to take everything regarding Ad-Dajjal literally, then why don't you also take his donkey literally too? The donkey whose one step will be in east and the other one in west, whose feet will be under water and the neck above clouds? The donkey who will eat fire so on and so forth?
DeleteYou also mentioned that Jesus is to come because he is the point of difference between Islam, Christianity and Judaism. What about other faiths? Why not somebody for them too? Also was not Holy Prophet (pbuh) not enough for the guidance of all these faiths? Why Jesus. Above all, where is your concept of Finality of prophet-hood gone with his coming AFTER Holy Prophet?
At one instance you believe that no prophet of any kind to come, but at the same time you also refer to the hadith that talks about Mubashirat PART OF PROPHET-HOOD still open. Mubashirat (true visions/dreams) when are received in great abundance, this makes it series of revelation. Prophets receive revelations in abundance and this is the kind of prophet-hood that is still open. So prophet-hood of all kinds HAS NOT ended. The "Prophet Jesus" you are waiting for has been accepted by us. It is the identity of that PROPHET that is different. This "kufr" has been committed by all Muslims, not just us!
The other ahadith that you have mentioned have explained by us many a time, and I think if you are interested to know the answer to some of the ahadith you mentioned, visit this link:
http://real-islam.org/khatim3.htm
So do you really think people will shelter beneath the skin of a pomegranate???
Before I begin to reply - can I ask that people stop just posting as ‘anon’. Either give yourself a name (if you don’t want to give your real name), or give your actual name. At least for those of us trying to reply, to know if we are actually talking to the same person, or if there are others joining the discussion.
DeleteIt has also been mentioned in the books of etiquette (such as Khateeb Al-Bagdadi’s (ra) book on the students of hadith) that it is actually rude to not introduce yourself by something you are known by – so also for simple manners, please put a name for yourself.
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As to your post – again, if you could bare patience with my response, as it might be lengthy – but again, there is much to reply to.
Firstly – either I misunderstood – but either you have placed the entire Muslim Ummah into the category of ‘non-muttaqeen’, from the time of the Sahaba – including all the major scholars of Islam from the early generations, until now for not understanding ‘finality of prophethood’ the way Mirza Gullam taught it – or I misunderstood your statement?
It appears - & it must be added, there are hundreds of scholars from the companions (and including some of the ‘Mujjadidoonn’ that the Ahmadiyya have named) that say that Muhammad (saw) is the last prophet and none will come after him except Isa (as) who is a prophet already.
In fact, the statements of Ibn Taymiya (ra), Imam Gazali (ra) and others have quite clearly laid out that Muhammad (saw) is the final prophet – and they are two of the ‘Mujaddid’ that they Ahmadiyya claim were in the past centuries. Were they now ‘non-muttaqi’ because they understood it wrong? I believe there is a post on ‘thecult.org’ that goes through all the ‘Mujjaddoon’ that the Ahmadiyya named and breaks down from their own words that Muhammad (saw) is the last.
Secondly – about the Qur’an and how we should take from it.
We all have to understand that the Qur’an and the words of the prophet (saw) will only be understood once we look into it from an Arabic context – and an Arabic context that was 1400 years ago – since Arabic now is different to how it was then. We here in Egypt have studied a science called Balaga (linguistic beauty) for over 3 years now – and we have not even begun to grasp the vast depth of linguistic beauty of Qur’an. But what I can say briefly – the Qur’an is best understood by the companions and the early scholars. Looking into early Tafsir where either the prophet (saw) has explained meanings of the Qur’an (himself), or the companions have done so, or the earliest of generations will give you an understanding of what the Qur’an was actually talking about in all the Ayat that have a linguistic tool applied. If they agree that something meant it literally – then we as Muslims take it literally. If they said it was flexible in its understanding – then that is what we take.
So regarding the verse you mentioned about being a ‘libaas’ then, looking into the Tafsir will give you the meanings.
As for the discussion of ‘aql’ – this is too large for me to go into it here – and you will see that there are aspects of Islam that are for the ‘aql’ to go into – and other aspects that the ‘aql’ of only studied people can go into – and for the rest of the Muslims it is not for them. But I cannot discuss this right now. But – Abu Bakr (ra) once mentioned using his ‘aql’ to give an explanation of a verse of the Qur’an and he stayed away from doing so – since he knew that that is not how the Qur’an is meant to be understood or played around with.
DeleteThirdly – I mentioned that it might be the reason that Allah (swt) took Isa (as) up was because of his pivotal place amongst the three major religions. I don’t know if that is what the scholars have agreed upon or not as to why Allah (swt) did so – I just thought it could be. As to the other people/other faiths – it is for sure that Allah (swt) focuses a lot on these three in the Qur’an and rarely mentions others – except for non-Muslims of course.
As to Isa (as) coming and breaking the finality answer – I think Farhan said once that if you look at it as 124,000 prophets and the 123,999th prophet is returning – it doesn’t mean he is now the 124,001st prophet – i.e. he isn’t new. Why he returns – as I said earlier – I don’t know what the scholars have said – but I thought perhaps because of his position amongst the three faiths – that might be a reason. Allahu a’lam
If I get the chance in the next few days – I can ask one of the Shayookh here.
Fourthly – Do you not believe that the prophet (saw) during Israa and Mi’raaj travelled on an animal that took him from Mecca to Al-Quds and that it could jump as fast as the eyes could see. Is this not believable? Did not Sulaimain (ra) have control of the winds that would carry him? Did not Isa (as) raise those from the dead by the permission of Allah (swt)?
It is almost sure that Ad-Dajal will come with things that will get the people believing in him – and he will need to come with miracles that are ‘non-wordly’. Like the man who he splits into two and they are as far as the eyes can see – then he brings them together again.
How and what it means – we again, submit to the understanding of the companions and early scholars of what they understood in the text and when it happens – we will see they were correct. I am almost positive that after the incident – people will look back and see that it was as it was written and said by the prophet (saw).
Fifthly - Regarding your point about how many books/thoughts are being spread throughout the religion and how some people are doing crazy things (in the name of Islam) – then this was going to happen since the prophet (saw) said that his ummah would split. Thus, he (saw) predicted it – and we can see it in front of us. Our job is to try and stick to the Sunnah and Insha'Allah do good deeds and ask Allah (swt) to save us from the fire. All I can do is invite others to what I believe is right with evidences and Insha'Allah with good manners – the rest we leave to Allah (swt).
DeleteI do however believe that those who claim Muhammad (saw) left prophethood open are no different to other people who have gone stray – they have misunderstood Islam’s foundation – they have left all the riches of scholarly work that our history is full of and followed a man who for me was predicted by the prophet (saw) – not as the Mehdi – but as one of the liars that claimed prophethood – and whatever else he claimed.
Sixthly - As for you mentioning ‘mubashiraat’ – then the prophet (saw) said people can have real dreams – and that as prophets – they also got real dreams. This is not the same as a person being sent by Allah (swt) as a prophet – with ‘wahy’ coming to him from Gibrael (as) – or other forms of ‘prophetical wahy’ coming to him that raise him from a person to a prophet. The prophet (saw) said there were 124,000 prophets and 30(ish) Rusul. More then this number have had true dreams – but the number of specific prophets have ended – no one can claim to be sent by Allah (swt) like these men were.
Finally – your statement: “So do you really think people will shelter beneath the skin of a pomegranate?”
I haven’t read about what our scholars have said on this matter yet (i.e. their understanding of this specific statement) – nor all the other miracles that happen at the end of time and how we are meant to believe them. We this year only studied some of the signs of the day of judgement – but as you know, there are hundreds of signs that the prophet (saw) gave us – so Insha'Allah, later on we will try cover more. Until I get the time to do so – I wont be able to answer you.
I will try read what you sent soon – but time is not always with me.
Allah (swt) is all knowing in all matters
You don't know as to why Jesus (as) is physically flying back, but Farhan says that he is not going to be 125,001 but somebody who has already been a Prophet. Who is Farhan? Is he one of those early scholars of Islam (God Forbid) who you apparently like to follow (My belief is that you only possess a certain understanding as to what early scholars had to say about this issue just like you are misinterpreting Quran and hadith on the subject of Finality of Prophet-hood). There might be some scholars who had certain way of understanding of this particular subject, but many had a different view point. Ayesha (ra) being one of them. This link will quote some of the early scholars of Islam about the issue:
Deletehttp://real-islam.org/khatim5.htm
Now you say that according to your view Jesus is coming for Christians, Muslims and Jews because Quran hardly mentions any other people than these three faiths. My friend! Quran is for the whole humanity. It is HudalliNnaas (guidance for the whole humanity) and not just the so called followers of these three religions.
So who should I go with? Somebody who doesn't know why Jesus is coming back because apparently others (who he likes to follow blindly so much) have not been able to interpret his purpose yet or the one who has claimed himself to be from God and explained it with reason, rationality and wisdom? I would go with somebody who was declared by Holy Prophet (pbuh) as Hakam and Adal (i.e. the Promised Messiah and Imam Mahdi himself).
Again, guidance doesn't come with your "knowledge" in Arabic. Had that been the case, then Abu Jahal should have understood the message of Quran and hadith without any issues. After all he was considered to be a knowledgeable person in that society anyway. But in Allah's eyes he was the biggest Jahil. Guidance comes from righteousness according to Quran. No where is it mentioned in the Holy Quran that if you have real command in Arabic, then you will have no issues understanding Quran. Regardless, my point of view is that our understanding of Islam is exactly the same as was taught by our beloved Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Guidance comes from Allah and not any institutions in Arab countries.
DeleteYou also mention that the word Khatam can be recited as Khatim if recited in a different Qiraat of Holy Quran. Hadhrat Uthman (ra) burnt all those copies of Quran that were written according to other Qiraats but only accepted one. The one spoken by Holy Prophet (saw) himself. Why? To remove this confusion that you are trying to promote here to suit your own desires. Thank God for that great service of Uthman (ra) for the preservation of the Holy Quran.
You can continue to believe in the literal understanding of Miraj and the miracles etc., our understanding is quite different though. So to you your "Islam" and to me my "Islam".
As for using a name to post you call me AMG. I do not think any other Ahmadi commented in our discussion.
1. Farhan is a brother that I have neither met or seen (except perhaps a clip or two on you tube). He does have a very good understanding of the Ahmadiyya and is defending Islam from its misguidance – I ask Allah (swt) to increase him in knowledge and sincerity.
DeleteI mentioned his example as it was well put and I didn’t want to steal credit for it.
2. The reason I asked for a name – as I am still not sure all the anon’s above are the same person – and like I said, there is much written by many of the old scholars about manners of discussion – one of them being – an introduction at least of a name. But anyway – I guess it is hugely important.
3. The vast majority – actually, I will say there is consensus on the matter - that Muhammad (saw) is the final prophet – and that anyone coming after him with a claim to prophethood is a liar and has left Islam. His (saw) hadith is very clear on it.
Even some of the Ahmadiyya passages that try and use some of the older scholars to defend their point is actually taking some words in one passage – and leaving others. I have read articles where the Ahmadiyya have been shown to show one section of writing from a scholar, leaving out another where it is clearly mentioned that Muhammad (saw) is the last.
Aside from that - if we open up for example Imam Tabari’s (ra) tafsir, or Ibn Kahtir (ra) – all the explanations of the ayat show companions – in tens saying that he (saw) is the last.
As for Aa’isha’s (ra) statement – once again, all the books of hadith and tafsir that mention this hadith follow it with another hadith explaining that Isa (as) is the last prophet (saw) that will bless Earth – and that he is not yet dead – thus she says (ra) “don’t say that statement – as Isa (as) will return”.
Also, I asked some Acabic teachers about the wording of her hadith – and they all told me that – her statement means “that is better to say khatam an-nabiyeen” then to say “la nabi badi” – but again, the prophet (saw) himself said that he is the last in both these forms – and that is what we take from – and Allah (swt) knows best
4. I said that it was just my opinion about Isa (ra) returning – that it could be linked to the ‘people of the book’. It is not for sure the position of Islam – so don’t take it from me that it is so. I just thought it could be – Allah (swt) knows best.
DeleteI did manage to ask two of our teachers here at Al-Azhar about why Allah (swt) chose Isa (as) – and they both gave me some good answers – but I dont have time to write it
5. Just to clarify - Abu Jahl believed that the prophet (saw) was the prophet – he just didn’t accept that he was chosen above him. His pride made him Jahil. There are narrations where he mentions that he knows that the prophet (saw) is a prophet.
As for Arabic – Umer (ra) said: “learn Arabic for it is part of you deen”. And anyone wanting to study a science of Islam must have Arabic as a foundation.
It doesn’t mean you cannot be guided to Islam without it – hundreds of people convert to Islam yearly in the West without knowing the alphabet – but for deeper understanding into Qur’an and Hadith and the sciences – you need to study the language.
You must remember – the miracle of Islam is the Qur’an and its miracle in language – so it is very important and it is a shame that many Muslims dont know the language.
6. I advise you not to discuss Qir’aat if you dont know about them.
The famous 10 narrations that we have are what Uthman (ra) agreed upon with the companions - and left his script (i.e. the Uthmani mushaf) open to the different narrations. Did you know he made 8 mushaf – all with slight differences in them to allow for the Qir’aat? Did you know that it is more likely that the prophet (saw) read Warsh (you will find the Qir’aat of Warsh in the north African countries) then Hafs – i.e. what most people know of?
I also advise you to go to (for example) Morroco or Libiya, or even here in Egypt behind some of the Imams - and pray in one of their Masjids – and see how they recite in a different Qiraa’at to what you are familiar with (Hafs an A’sim) and have done so since 1400 years.
7. If you believe that the prophet (saw) didn’t travel from Mecca to Al-Quds during the night of Miraaj – then I suggest you open up Sahih Al-Bukhari and read its hadith on the matter.
@Abu Musa
DeleteI read your many post you have a great knowledge of Islam. Could you please tell me whats the difference between ‘KHaTAM’ and ‘KHaaTAM’. As per my understanding ‘KHaTAM’ is a verb and ‘KHaaTAM’ is a noun. Eg: write and writer, Am I right?
TD
TD:
DeleteMy Islamic knowledge is not 'great' at all - JazakAllahu khair for your compliment and I ask Allah (swt) to increase us all in beneficial knowledge.
I will need to write some background about some Arabic rules before I begin answering your question – so I hope you can bare with me (it might not make complete sense) – Insha'Allah I will get to your answer.
Arabic linguistics has three major components – and all of these will be briefly discussed Insha'Allah:
1. The science of ‘Morphology’:
In Arabic – all branched words come from a ‘root’.
If we say for example in English - taking the verb ‘to love’ (this would be equivalent to an Arabic ‘root’).
Then from the root ‘to love’ – you can branch off many different words based on it – for example: ‘The lover’, ‘The loved’, ‘The emphatic lover’, ‘I/you/he/we/they love’, ‘it was loved’, ‘I will love’ etc...
In Arabic, from a root word, you can possibly get over 28 different meanings from it – these are called ‘mushtaqaat’s’ – and some of them are overlapping with English terms, where as some are not.
For example, the root ‘ka-dh-ba’ (كذب) means to lie and ‘al kaadhib’ (ال كاذب) means the one who lies (the liar) - as you can see, this form of verb extraction does exist in English, where as ‘al-kadaab’ (ال كذّاب) means the compulsive/big/huge liar (it is known as ‘seega al-mubalaga’ – the extreme form of the verb – and this is something that doesn’t exist in English unless you bring an adjective or a supporting verb with you) and that is why the prophet (saw) called ‘Musailama’ al-kadhaab (and not just simply al-kaadhib) – because he didn’t just lie about being a prophet – rather he came with a huge lie.
It must also be remembered that some Arabic words can sometimes have more then one root meaning – for example ‘كاد’ can mean ‘To nearly do’ or it can mean ‘to have an evil plot’ – and Allah (swt) uses this word in the Qur’an saying that ‘The plot (إن كيد) of Shaytaan is weak’ whereas another verse he says regarding the Beni Israail, when they slaughtered the cow: ‘And they nearly didn’t (و ما كاد) do it’
2. The science of ‘Balaga’
DeleteOn top of this – an Arabic word can have a different implication due to the context of the sentence/paragraph (something I imagine existing in all languages) and this is called ‘majaaz’ – for example, Allah (swt) says in the Qur’an in the story of Yusuf (as) when his brothers return to their father without Beni Yamin (Yusuf’s youngest brother) because of the issue of theft that took place – they told the father to ask the ‘village’ about what happened – of course, implying the people of the village (as you cannot ask a village directly) – but it is clear from the passage and the context what is meant - and I assume happens in all languages across the globe.
Of course this science gets deeper and more complicated – and is really about getting to grips with the deep literature that exists in Arabic.
3. Grammar
Grammar tends to focus mostly on how the endings of words are written and pronounced. For example: does it end with a ‘Dhamma’ or a ‘Fatha’ or a ‘Kasra’ – or does it end with ‘wow and a noon or a yaa and a noon’ etc... Why is it sometimes we see the word as Muslimoon and sometimes Muslimeen (when they mean the same) – this all comes into the grammar side of things.
Depending on what the endings of the word – it can imply as to what that word is doing in terms of the sentence – i.e. is it a verb, is it an adjective, is it a doer of the verb, is it what the verb is being done to?
Remember, most Arabic writings are free of all these signs, so studying what the end or what the sign should be is hugely important to fully grasp what is being said to you.
The Qur’an that was written down during the prophets (saw) time, or after him by Abu Bark (ra) and then by Uthman (ra) was also free of these signs. In fact, they didn’t even have the ‘dots’ to distinguish between letters (so you couldn’t really tell between a ‘ي ب ت ن ث’ just by looking at it) – and the addition of symbols/dots only started to come about during the time of Ali (ra) and then years after that.
Nowadays, we have colour coded Qur’ans to aid us even more in correct pronunciation, but we have moved along greatly from the Qur’an of Uthman (ra) which didn’t even have a sign to show the ending of where an Ayat was, and where the next began. If anyone gets a chance to go to Turkey – you can still see some very old Qur’ans and you will be shocked as to its appearance compared to the books we find situated in mosques and in our houses.
(I hope that made some sense – and a slight background)
When we begin to talk about (خاتم) – either the form Khatim or Khatam – we have to look at all of the three things mentioned above – i.e. what is its root and what branch of the root are we looking at – we also need to see the sign of the ending and what implication that has, and finally we need to stick in into the sentence to see what Allah (swt) is trying to tell us with this word.
Delete-The root word is ‘kh –ta-ma’ – and its root meaning generally takes the form of seal or something that comes to an end.
Allah (swt) says in that he has ‘kh ta ma’ the hearts of the disbelievers – i.e. has sealed them, or closed them off. (Surah Baqara).
- The verse in Surah Ahzaab where Allah (swt) talks about the prophet being a messenger of Allah (swt) and ‘khaatam/khaatim an-nabiyeen’ can be recited in both forms – and in the ‘Hafs’ form, we say ‘Khatam’ where as the other 9 Qiraa’at recite it as ‘Khatim’.
Now – I briefly looked up (from a linguistic perspective) what ‘Khaatim/Khaatam’ actually implies from the root meaning.
Linguistically, it can mean ‘the doer’ (like you mentioned in your question) – i.e. Muhammad (saw) is sealing prophethood or ending it – he is doing the verb.
It can also take on the form of a noun in meaning ‘last’. And some other said that it means ‘Makhtoom’ – which I can only translated again as ‘last’ (since the language doesn’t match over but it doesn’t mean last exactly as ‘khatim’ means last and finally, the last way it could take a meaning from the root word ‘khtama’ is to be the seal such as the seal of a letter.
-The third aspect we need to look at is the context of the sentence – and this of course is the most vital because, sometimes a word can fit the bill linguistically as something – but when placed into a sentence, it can hold another meaning completely.
The Ahmadiyya claim that it takes on the meaning of ‘best’ and there are some examples in Arabic where the word is used to mean ‘best’. This is true in that – sometimes (in Arabic), the word for ‘the last of something’ means the ‘best of something’ – but unfortunately, I have not seen anyone say this regarding this verse from any of the companions, nor the scholars of the language (rather they all say it means that he is the last) – and it is only the Ahmadiyya that say otherwise.
It must also be emphasised that ‘Khatam’ does not as a root meaning take on the meaning ‘best’ and there is no Arabic dictionary that says it means best in its original form – but yes, potentially, it can mean best dependent on the sentence.
Insha'Allah – I think that was about it. I apologise for it being so long – but I thought that some of the background was needed to give a proper answer to the question.
I do want to say one final thing – the context of Qur’an can (and only can) be understood as it was understood by the earliest of generations. They either saw revelation or sometimes were the reason for some of the revelation and they lived in a time where the language was exactly what they were speaking. Even Arabic a few hundred years after them was not the same – and just like English has changed and evolved over time – I cannot understand and explain Shakespeare English as well as those who were with him at his time – the same is with Arabic.
So, when you look at a Tafsir which gives the explanations of the companions on the word ‘Khatam/Khatim’ and they are all saying that the verse means that he is the last prophet – no one is allowed later on to say – well actually it means best in this context.
JazakAllahu khairen – and as always, we ask Allah (swt) to accept out actions.
Wa Allahu (swt) a’lam
It doesn't matter what your brother Farhan says or believes. He is no authority. He is just giving his own misguided opinion. Regardless if Jesus is an old prophet or new, you believe in the coming of a prophet AFTER Holy Prophet. You also see a need of a prophet (even though you still have got no idea what is that need for the coming of Jesus) after Holy Prophet (saw). Difference between two of us in the identity of that Messiah. To you 2000 years old Israelite prophet who came for the Israelites alone is flying back to earth, while to me Holy Prophet's message is strong enough to guide the whole humanity and it is his own servant born with in his ummah who has been bestowed with the honour of prophet-hood by Allah Almighty. When Holy Prophet (saw)is for whole humanity, then the Promised Messiah and Imam Mahdi has to come for the purpose of bringing the whole humanity (regardless of them being israelites or otherwise) under the flag of Holy Mustafa (pbuh).
DeleteHadhrat Uthman (ra)accepted only one dialect and rejected the rest to remove the misconceptions that you are trying to promote here to further your own twisted understanding of Islam. Allah Almighty has taken the responsibility of safeguarding the Quran from this kind of heinous corruption. Different accents of recitation doesn't meant that one can change the meaning of Quran also according to those different accents. If that happens then we will no more have one Quran. Every different region will have a different Quran with different meanings too. There is only one Quran, and this is what Uthman (ra) did to safeguard Quran with Allah's guidance. The word is Khatam according to the copy of Quran that we have received since the time of Holy Prophet (saw) and accepted by Uthman (ra). If a different dialect reads it as Khatim, that doesn't change its meaning. It is just a different dialect, the Quran still remains the same with the grace and mercy of Allah Almighty. You are playing into the hands of the enemies of Islam who already want to prove somehow that Quran can not be trusted. The change in Quran that you want to make from the word Khatam to Khatim wouldn't stop here. It will open a Pandora's box that will not be able to close ever again. So stop spreading this great confusion about Allah's Book just for the sake of winning an argument against Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat.
DeleteWe also believe the Holy Prophet (saw) to be the final prophet, but our understanding is not limited to words only. You believe in his finality but at the same time deny it with the coming of another prophet after him. We believe in his finality in its true spirit. Holy Prophetm(saw) made the meaning of Last quite clear when he declared his mosque as last in the same hadith as well.
DeleteLet us all hear what your Azhar teachers "think" why Jesus is coming back. It is very important to know. Share it with all your friends here who are still waiting for his coming. They would all "benefit" from the reason. Anyway, they are only giving their opinions according to their set of beliefs. The fact is that there is no reasonable explanation to the literal flight back of Jesus now, and you know it yourself. The only reasonable explanation to the "second coming of Messiah" was given by Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) from Allah's guidance.
When have I ever disputed the fact that learning Arabic is a good thing. However, learning Arabic can give you no benefit if your heart is devoid of righteousness. Allah guides whom so ever He pleases regardless of ones' linguistic background. There are thousands of Arab Muslims who have also accepted the truthfulness of Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as). Ahmadiyya Jamaat is the true Islam. You can try to stop its progress, but your fight is against Allah.
DeleteI have read about Miraj in detail and this is why I am convinced that it was only a spiritual journey and not physical one. It was a great vision that Holy Prophet (saw) was shown by Allah. I also read about the old woman who met Holy Prophet (saw) during this journey. She offered a cup of milk, water and wine to him. Holy Prophet (saw) only accepted milk and rejected water and wine. Why he accepted milk has great significance and meaning behind it, but to cut the story short, Holy Prophet was informed that the old lady who offered him th drinks was in fact "the world". How can this be a physical journey then? You talk about miracles of Quran, but believe in such non-sensible interpretations that it boggles ones' mind.
To you your "Islam" of Azhar teachers and to me my Islam.
I am assuming all the anon's above are the same person and Allah (swt) willing - I will try to respond appropriately. I also assume due to your very last line that you are ceasing this discussion. If so, I will leave my responses and ask Allah (swt) opens your heart to Islam
Delete1. Firstly - My apologies Farhan – I seem to have added your name to my post and from it you have had some bad things said about you. May Allah (swt) keep you strong,
As for him being an authority (Insha'Allah, one day he can reach the heights of Islamic knowledge and be an authority) – but until then, I will say again - I only used his example as it was well put. If you want – remove my statement ‘Farhan said...’ and replace it with ‘I say...’ – but just remember, it was his well structured sentence.
2. The prophet Muhammad (saw) is the last prophet of Islam – no new prophet will come – I cannot see how anyone can think otherwise due to the vast amounts of hadith on the topic and his clear statement that claimants to prophethood after him are all liars. The fact that Isa (as) will return to complete his mission doesn’t mean he unlocks the door of prophethood – and I say again - anyone who claims to be a prophet after Muhammad (saw) is a liar.
I saw today a new guy claiming prophethood – and I pray that he comes back to Islam and repents otherwise he can only fall into the category of those who Allah (swt) mentions in Surah Al-Anaam – “and who commits a greater sin except that he lies upon Allah (swt) claiming that he has received revelation when in fact nothing has been revealed to him.... And only if you could see when his time of death comes and the Angels stretch out their arms ripping out his sole, saying ‘today you will reap the punishment for what you used to say about Allah (swt)...”
As for needing Isa (as):
Firstly – the prophet (saw) said that revivers will come at the head of every generation to bring the religion back to life. He also (saw) said that the Mehdi will return at the end of time and he said that Isa (as) will return. They are sent by Allah (swt) because there is a need for these men – but their need is subjected to the boundaries of Islam and the Sharia. Remember, Isa (as) is following the Sharia of Islam as will the Mehdi as will the Mujadideen. They are not coming with anything new – thus, I don’t understand what need you are talking about?
Secondly – Allah (swt) has chosen him (as) to return – it is part of Qadr and it will be fulfilled. He could have chosen Musa (as) or even Adam (as) – but there was a reason that Isa (as) was chosen and it is clearly linked with what has happened to Alh Al-Kitaab. We are commanded to believe in the Qadr and since Allah (swt) and His messenger (saw) have told me that he returns – even if I don’t have any idea as to why, or when, or how, or anything else – I am obliged to submit to the text.
3. Like I said earlier – please be careful about talking of aspects of Islam that you don’t know anything about. It is dangerous and sinful.
DeleteThe Qir’aat are many and although Uthman (ra) closed it down to script of the Quriash, that script still left ten Qir’aat from it that which reached us through mutawatir chains.
Even your ‘scholars’ know about the Qir’aat and accept them. I think one by the name of Adam Hani – who is classified by the Ahmadiyya as one of their major scholars has discussions of the Qir’aat and accepts that they exist. I read his works on the Qir’aat and although he has made some major mistakes in understanding what they are – at least he knows that they exist and that they are Qur’an – and they are the same Qur’an that you have in your house.
I do not have the time to write about what the Qir’aat are for you – it is a big topic – but I am sure there is much material on the internet about it. So – I just ask that you go and read up upon the Qir’aat that has been left in the ummah of Muhammad (saw) and when you do and you want to ask some questions on the matter – I will try my best to answer.
4. As for your statement that we believe Muhammad (saw) as being the final prophet – well, you might believe that, but Mirza Gullam and the Ahmadiyya faith do not. They have tried to get around the tens of hadith of the prophet (saw) by saying, well the statements meant the last ‘law bearing’ prophet, but that a ‘non law bearing’ prophet can still come. This answer has no Islamic foundation – and in 1400 years of Islam, no one has come up with such a statement.
If the idea of ‘law bearing’ and ‘non-law bearing’ prophets is part of Islam – then why is there no companion or early scholar talking about it? You will either have to say that the prophet (saw) didn’t teach this to them, or you will have to say that they didn’t know the full Islam due to Allah (swt) not completing the religion for them.
As for the hadith of the last mosque – this hadith is part of a longer hadith that can be found in the other books of hadith. Imam Muslim in his Sahih only came with a narration that is part of a much larger hadith. The full hadith narrates: "I am the last of the Prophets and my mosque is the last of the mosques of the prophets.". I think this hadith speaks volumes.
5. I asked about why Isa (as) is retuning to one of my teachers – and his answer was long and to be honest, I would like to ask him again since I was only able to grasp some of it. I also want to ask some more of the scholars here and in the other Muslim lands to the specifics of the decent of Isa (as) – so when I do – I will try post it.
Delete6. The part you mentioned about Arabic – I believe I have already answered this before & I said guidance is not based on language – but true understanding of the sciences of Islam is.
As for Islam spreading in the Arab countries – I don’t think that is true at all – Arab Ahmadiyya is almost non-existent – and you will find it very hard to sell your religion to them.
7. The issue of Israa and Miraaj according to the older scholars is that it was a physical journey – the companions understood it as so, and this is what the statements have been in the books of tafsir.
You have to remember – the veils of this world were removed to the prophet (saw) that night as he was travelling and ascending into the heavens – he saw the hellfire and the paradise and he met with many a prophet and even led them all in prayer. He explained outer worldly experience to us using the language he best could – but just because we cannot fully grasp it – it doesn’t mean we reject the actual journey.
We cannot reject the angels and the fact that some of them have 2 wings whilst others have 6000. We cannot reject that they are made of light and that the Jinn are made of fire because we can’t understand it – again, we accept what the prophet (saw) said and that is all that is upon us.
Finally - I will keep my belief with the majority of Islamic scholars since the prophet (saw) ordered us to stick with the ‘Jama’’ – and going against them can only lead to misguidance. If most of them say it was physical (and not spiritual) – then what is upon me except to follow the best brains Islam produced – and that was what the classical scholars were.
Wa Allahu must’aan
"tick tock tick tock.
ReplyDeletebrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
lol. ;)"
Please tell me the Mullahs haven't convinced you into blowing yourself up, you sound like a walking time bomb.
Suicide and killing is not the answer.
Not sure about the beliefs of Ahlus Sunnah on this one. Some cult info members do believe in the killing of Ahmadis from what I recall and they aren't ashamed to admit it.
dil bole boom boom #MullahSongs
DeleteI fully support what has been written. May Allah s.w.t bless your efforts in educating the masses.
ReplyDeleteI commend you for your ability tell it how it is.I see things clearly now and you are right hypocrisy is rife. Is this Allah's Jamaath? I am seriously starting to doubt it. Why doesn't Huzur sort this out he is the Khalifa he has over riding authority over all of these detestable men. Is he scared, blind or is he just like them?
ReplyDeleteHave we been had?
Thanks for everything. You are a rare stone.
There must have been some kind of justification for this? How did they convince his fellow co workers that it was orite for him to stay on? I don't get this Jamaat anymore. It's a mess and I don't think it will get better. So much for 'Pure'.
ReplyDeleteFML.
too busy with the wedding to blog hey?
ReplyDeleteHey People why not check a lawyer name Janjua from Canada also another Ahmadi who ran a mortgage fraud worth some $35 million pocketed the money and ran to some other country.
ReplyDeleteSeems that Ahmadis like to follow "do what I say and don't say about what I do."
Another law breaker is Nasser Khan who is UK naib ameer so in conclusion all ameers and naib ameers should only get their position if they successfully break the law otherwise they need training in how to break the law before becoming Ameers and Naib Ameers.
There are plenty of law breakers in Rafiq Hayts camp but because they are mates no action is taken. Nasser Khan is just one example.
DeleteHere is the problem, I go beyond many of you here by age group (assuming) there are plenty of law breakers in the jma'at including people of the khandan.
DeletePoint is there is no Umar bin Khattab (RA) in this jam'at.
All those who are following this cult blindly here is a question for you all "Is your so called Prophet's place of revelation in Qadian more important than Ghar-e-Hira" just look at the pictures and tell me why the difference.
Providing spaces for ahmadi woman to pray is good but better if it is actually used otherwise it is an empty space,
ReplyDeleteAgree. But the option is available to them. Not the case elsewhere...
DeleteI disagree with you there, all Mosques here in Canada provide for women and children and lot more, everyone is welcom even Ahmadis and all our addressed as brother or sister.
Deletepls cultgirl come to canada jalsa 2012 <3 pls there are enough ppl who will stand with us PLSSSSSSSSSSSS
ReplyDeleteYes please come :) You have a growing fan base in Montreal! :)
DeleteThe corruption amongst these guys is beyond belief, however what speaks volumes is the fact that Mirza Masroor is unable unwilling to do anything about it. Epic Fail.
ReplyDeleteAnd yet each time on this blog you have ahmadis who do not address their administration and double standards but instead pick out faults that are with the Muslim communities, this makes ahmadis no better, look at your own jamaat before you go and judge others.
DeleteAre you on crack? Look at your own jamaat before...?
DeleteDo you see Ahmadi blogs highlighting the billion problems in the Muslim world?
Mirza Masroor is UNABLE to do anything about it!
Deletelook up the definition of unable for those who do not understand.
The difference is the Muslim world isn't a Jamaat it is an Ummah- one of which you are not a part of. The Ummah is a body with different parts and that functions differently. Our Body doesn't claim to be the best and most fittest. It is ill. You Jamaat claims divine rule. You are on crack.
Delete@AnonymousMar 19, 2012 05:27 AM
DeleteI know they don't go and blog about the Muslim Ummah but let me say that you quadiyanis and your "so called" khalifa always go to the media and every given opportunity you slander the Muslims, to the point of even letting the Israeli prime minister know that they should be aware of Iran!
The Muslim ummah does not need to have the admadis to point out their shortcomings from you, allamdolilah the Muslims are not arrogant like you, it is ahmadis who claim to be divine and the best of all mankind, the Muslims address their shortcomings and try to better themselves.
No I am not on crack but you ahmadis who blindly follow and allow your administration to run with people like Nasser Khan,Rafiq H, Khalifa Abdul Aziz and then you have your khalifa who cannot do anything at all and then you say he is divinely guided, seriously open your eyes.
WASTE OF TIME AND EFFORT. YOU ARE BETTER THAN THEM. YOU COULD SHOW THEM MASROOR GIVING ORAL SEX TO RAFIQ HAYAT AND THEY WOULD DEFEND IT AND BRING UP MULLAHS AS AN EXAMPLE BUT THEY WILL NEVER EVER ADDRESS THE ISSUES IN THEIR CULT. WASTE OF TIME I FEEL EXHAUSTED FOR YOU YOU POOR GIRL. YOU MUST BE TIRED.
ReplyDeleteVery tired and May Allah reward you for everything. I hope you are happy.
DeleteI agree why has there not been one single Ahmadi addressing this post. Abu Musa has allowed the entire post to be taken off course addressing some Ahmadi about East London Islamic Centre. What a waste of a good post but what excellent topic diversion. Bravo Ahmadi.
ReplyDeleteI ask Ahmadis- What do you make of this situation? If the Khalifa was the man he claims to be then if there was even one complain raised against any member of his worldwide adminsitration it should be looked into. I dont believe for a second prior to this piece that nobody complained about this unfair situation. Why can your fearless and warrior Khalifa not take appropriate action and had him replaced with a decent law abiding citizen. why does your Khalifa let these men continue in their ahmadi fields when a more deserving person could do a better job.
Address this. forget about the sharab sipping mullahs and forget about the fornicating muslim teenagers and forget about the muslims who are involved with riba and forget about free mixing at muslim weddings but please lets address this.
by the way ahmadis are forced to have segregated weddings for fear they will be found out and expelled. who knows if the option and freedom that muslims enjoy was awarded to them and they had free will if they would actually have segregated weddings? the muslims mashallah who have segregated weddings do so on their own accord. there is no mafia thug like masroor theatening them to do it. Thats the difference between Muslims and Ahmadis.
THEY CANNOT ANSWER BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOTHING TO SAY. WHAT CAN THEY SAY? THEY WILL SPIN THE AGE OLD 'EVERY COMMUNITY HAS PROBLEMS'. DIVINE JAMAAT AND REVIVAL OF ISLAM BUT THEY WANT TO COMPARE THEIR BEST TO OUR WORST?
DeleteLONDON STREET TERMINOLOGY: 'BEGGING IT'.
topic diversion? it was a continuation from the previous post where comments were stopped for some reason...
Deleteyou say forget about mixing at weddings and then ask a question about it, are you on crack too?
and lord knows what the person mentioning oral sex is on?
you are all insane in the membrane.
this is the difference between Ahmadi Muslims and Ex Ahmadis.
The focus of this post is on a naib ameer who has been found guilty of corruption and fraud. The law society has had him disbarred for his deeds. This same man is an Ahmadi appointed by Khalifa Mirza Masroor despite his corruption and the Khalifa Mirza Masroor has also appointed the likes of Nasser Khan another Naib Ameer who too has broken the law. WHY IS THE KHALIFA OF TRUE ISLAM ALLOWING THIS CORRUPTION AMONGST HIS OWN ADMINISTRATION TEAM.
ReplyDeleteMaybe these positions in Ahmadis is reserved for the morally corrupt/challenged.
While you continue to upload old news videos on youtube, the jamaat continue to break the cross..
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFegDcrVm_o
lol at you calling Apa Jan 'Amtul Sabooh' on the make up article. in all ur previous posts u used to call her 'khala saboohi'. cum on get serious we all no u hang out with the family girls and make out ur such a top dog wen ur a nobody like the rest of us
ReplyDeleteX
How do u feel about your Amir committing shirk? Why is he still Amir? Can any member of the true Islam answer this please?
DeleteAHMADIYO read carefully following verses of Al-Baqra:
ReplyDelete[2:1] Alif. Lam. Mim.
[2:2] This is the Scripture whereof there is no doubt, a guidance unto those who ward off (evil).
[2:3] Who believe in the Unseen, and establish worship, and spend of that We have bestowed upon them;
[2:4] And who believe in that which is revealed unto thee (Muhammad) and that which was revealed before thee, and are certain of the Hereafter.
[2:5] These depend on guidance from their Lord. These are the successful.
Again read carefully, Who believe in the Unseen, and establish worship, and spend of that We have bestowed upon them; And who believe in that which is revealed unto thee (Muhammad) and that which was revealed before thee, and are certain of the Hereafter. These depend on guidance from their Lord. These are the successful.
And again read carefully, And who believe in that which is revealed unto thee (Muhammad) and that which was revealed before thee, and are certain of the Hereafter. These depend on guidance from their Lord. These are the successful.
How simply and clearly ALLAH told us in the starting of Quran who are successful, ALLAH did not ask about Maseeh, Mehdi, MGA, Khalifa, Nizam Jamat, Khalaft, Chanda, Duties, Meetings, Jalsa, Ijlas, Ataat and so on...
BAYGHARTO I am not expecting you will think about it I know you will blindly follow your KHALIFA and your NIZAM because ALLAH has told us in the next verses:
[2:6] As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not.
[2:7] Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom.
BAYGHARTO THIS IS JUST FOR YOUR INFORMATION TUM JAHLON KO SIRF ALLAH HE SAMJHA SAKTA HAY.
TD
Excellent Reference.
DeleteExcellent reference beacaue these are the words of the Almighty. Your comment doesn't even deserve a response because of your language...
DeleteHowever the verses about the Disbelievers refer to those who have NOT believed, ie. yourselves.
Ahmadi Muslims are the BELIEVERS.
TD go and respond to your previous discussion.
DeleteOh wait a minute you can't. The towel was thrown into the ring by your coach early on..
Can any Ahmadi justify this please? Why are you so silent? Cat caught your tongue? Wake up and realise your Khalifa is a hypocrite and not a man of God and that he is surrounded by questionable characters. This is your leadership/heads of the True Islam. Think Ahmadis please Think. Masroor isn't who or what you think he is. Think. Think.
ReplyDeleteThis site is trailer TRASH
ReplyDeleteI you can explain why e.g. murderers, rapists, thugs, launderers, thieves comprise the leadership of the so called "muslim Ummah" then perhaps I can give you an explanation to why disciplinary action was taken against a lawyer by the law society. The reasons, details etc , Only Allah knows. As per the Law society's site, he had to pay a fine of a measly $1000 to be reinstated...but chose not too. Folks make mistakes and errors in judgement. The complainant may have a case but it could be born out of a grudge against Mr. Khalifa. Allah knows best. But no one has a right to put him on trial on the internet!
ReplyDeleteP.S. He notarized my marriage certificate last year so he still practices law...FYI...
forget it...why is he still in his jamaat position??? thats the point here. he is an official and therefore shouldnt mind having his business discussed in public. they are religious MPs after all. if you are googleable you are answerable. simple.
Deleteas they say if you cant stand the heat get the heck outta the kitchen!
Deletewell done Savariya Cult Girl!
All of those are forgivable sins. Shirk isn't. Rafiq Hayat committed shirk. Stop beating around the bush and tell us why a man who committed shirk is one of the top leaders of the true Islam.
DeleteReading this stuff makes me feel ill.
ReplyDelete@Your comment doesn't even deserve a response because of your language
ReplyDeleteThis is called 'MGA WRITING STYLE'. I will suggest you read MGA books you will be used to this language also jamat frequently use word 'BAYGHART'.
@However the verses about the Disbelievers refer to those who have NOT believed, ie. yourselves.
As expected you did not read first five verses of Al-Baqra, read again who are successful...
1) believe in the Unseen 2) spend in charity of what ALLAH given them 3) believe in what has been revealed to Muhammad SAW 4) believe in what was revealed to those before Muhammad SAW 5) are certain of the Hereafter
These are very simple and clear five charactritics of successful people, therefore none-Ahmadi can be successful if they dont believe on MGA/KHALAFAT but you call us KAFIR.
JAHAYLO only ALLAH can teach you because your problem is very serous read next verse
[2:10] In their hearts is a disease, and Allah increaseth their disease. A painful doom is theirs because they lie.
And you call yourself peacemakers, read next two verses ALLAH has already told us about it.
[2:11] And when it is said unto them: Make not mischief in the earth, they say: We are peacemakers only.
[2:12] Are not they indeed the mischief-makers ? But they perceive not.
When we say accept Muhammad SAW as majority of Muslims believe you call us foolish, in next verse ALLAH tell us about that.
[2:13] And when it is said unto them: believe as the people believe, they say: shall we believe as the foolish believe ? are not they indeed the foolish ? But they know not.
BAYGHARTO TUM JAHIL HO AUR JAHIL HE RAHO GAY
taizdhar@live.com
@TD go and respond to your previous discussion.
ReplyDeletesend me link of that post
@ TD bear
ReplyDeleteAre Ahmadis the ones killing people to make muslims the majority or are we the ones making people believe that Islam is a peaceful religion?
The mischief makers are those who are killing us and other people around the world, get your facts right.
Who are the believers? the ones who believe in the Promised Messiah (as) or the ones who reject him? I think this ayat fits you more than it does me.
I personally do not believe in MGA at all, it is also wrong for you to assume that all muslims are killing, there are more muslims that are killed than ahmadis, etc,Palestine through the hands of the zionists and yet no one condemns their actions especially from the ahmadis.
DeleteIt is a testing time for all mankind and was it not that MGA was to eradicate all wars and there will be peace on earth, well it seems that did not happen.
You are also not in the position to say who are the believers or disbelievers, only Allah (swt) can judge that. Does that mean the whole mankind are disbelievers and ONLY AHMADIS ARE BELIEVERS!WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT TO BE A BELIEVER YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT MGA!
The west that you worship so much is also part of the problem that lead to disorder in the Muslim states too, please stop blaming others if we do not believe in your prophet.
Too mad to write anymore!!!!
The Holy prophet (saw) did not determine who is Muslim and who is not so isn't Allah the ONE to decide on this matter ALSO???? You sound confused.
ReplyDeleteAnd who says we do not condemn their actions? If you think that condemnation is the burning of statues and flags etc then yes we do not condemn in that way as our dearest Holy Prophet (saw) did not teach us this way. If on the other hand condemnation is prayer for the innocent victims then yeh we are the greatest of condemners.
@are we the ones making people believe that Islam is a peaceful religion?
ReplyDeleteBAYGHARTO You are all ‘Nafsyati Mareez’, who are you to tell the world that Islam is peaceful religion? You are in few millions and we are in billions therefore we will decide what is Islam. You have all characteristics of CULT, you foolish people dont know western people can more easily identify CULT than we Asians, they know your OKAAT in Muslim world no one takes you seriously. Enemy of enemy is a friend and you are enemy of Islam thats the only reason you have some respect otherwise….
@The mischief makers are those who are killing us
BAYGHARTO AGAR TUMHEN TUMHARI JAHALAT KA ZARA ANDAZA HOTA TUM KHUD KEHTE ‘KILL US WE DESERVE FOR THIS’
@Who are the believers? the ones who believe in the Promised Messiah (as) or the ones who reject him?
BAYGHARTO You are like a very dull student who dont want to learn anything, he has his own logics and he thinks he is a genius because teachers unable to understand his logics. The problem is you have already assumed that whatever we will tell you will be wrong. If I give you references from Quran and Hadees, I know due to your psychological problems, you will NEVER try to understand me you will ALWAYS try to make me wrong. You are not believers you are mental case.
Ahmdiyo please tell me something about your Promised Messiah:
1) What was the mission of Promised Messiah?
2) How much he has completed his mission in his life?
3) How much you have completed his mission after his death?
4) How much work you have to finish his mission?
No matter what they read here or anywhere else they are totally blind in this cult, cannot think, will not think because they follow blindly at this corrupted khalifa and his administration says a lot about what these quadiyanis are like. I once was like you but thank Allah (swt) that he opened my eyes and heart to see the truth.
DeletePlease seek the truth before it is too late.
This is what the Germans think of ahmadis:
Deletehttp://www.pi-news.org/2011/07/ahmadiyya-proselytizing-in-allahs-service/
While you are too busy with your fake "Love for all, hatred for none" slogans the above poster is not lying, there is a British and an Irish point of view too on the falsehood on ahmadis, I will find that too and post it.
No this is what Michael Stürzenberger thinks, how does he represent all Germans?
DeleteI think the author of this article is getting confused between Ahmadi Muslims and mainstream Muslims.
@ Anon 02:22 AM
ReplyDeleteAssalamo Alikum
1) Missions is a) break the cross, kill pig, be hakam & adal for muslim sects, establish khilafat.
2) How much completed? Cross is broken. pig killing is ongoing, hakam & adal all done in shape of 85 books and our dazzling khilfat is there for all to see.
3) Nothing left to complete so my answer is N/A
4) As above N/A
Wasalam and have a nice day
P.s. (I would get my blood pressure checked if I was you, seems on the high side)
Look at Christian countries they are more strong now, could you please explain how cross is broken?
ReplyDeleteWhats new you find in those 85 books regarding hakam & adal please share with me as I am unaware?
When MGA told you about your dazzling KHALAFAT give me any reference?
I am wondering how are you killing pigs please also clear it?
Thanks for your reply
TD
What's new? So you confirm there is no innovation in Islam Ahmadiyya, JazakAllah TD bear X
ReplyDeleteNew innovation, chanda, wafq-e-nau and wassiyat, where in The Quran is mentioned with those 3 things that this cult does!
DeleteEngland is a christian country where our beloved leader resides, tell me exactly what it is "more strong" in?
ReplyDeleteAlso have you witnessed the new trend of churches becoming Ahmadi Mosques? I don't just mean England but USA also.
ReplyDeleteThis is what I would call BREAKING THE CROSS.
And while you wait for your Messiah to break the crosses, We will continue to let our Messiah break them before his arrival !
ReplyDeletePlay on Playas.
Should we be breaking the cross like the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia?
ReplyDeleteHow can the highest recognized cleric in Saudi Arabia have completely abandoned such clear and direct commandments in the Koran?
@ TD
ReplyDeleteThere are many ways one can break the cross. The ones you get which are made out of wood can be broken by hands, though one must watch out for splinters etc. The ones which are made out of metal are a little bit tricky, you are going to need a hammer to either smash it or you can also use pliers to bend it so that it does not look like a cross any more BUT brother & sisters - a word of caution here - when using pliers to bend the cross out of shape make sure that it does not end up looking like a sawastika.
So you see brothers and sisters this is how you brake the cross - why wait for the messiah, just start now, you can make this a family thing - instead of playing the WII all the family can get involved and you can compete with each other on who brakes the most. In your mosques you guys can have competitions on cross braking, imagine the joy and fun!!!!
Why not post your pictures & videos on the web !!!
LMAO
Deletewhere is the 'like' button on this comment.
Delete@Also have you witnessed the new trend of churches becoming Ahmadi Mosques?
ReplyDeleteTREND = a general development or change in a situation or in the way that people are behaving
There are more than 15,000 churches in UK and you say those are becoming Ahmadi Mosques.
Trust me you are a ‘Nafsyati Mareez’ but I know you wont believe me so I will suggest you go to a psychiatrist and tell him ‘you are a witness of new trend that in UK and USA churches are becoming Ahmadi Mosques’ he will tell you how serious you are.
@ And while you wait for your Messiah to break the crosses, We will continue to let our Messiah break them before his arrival !
When you will do this it would be a big news on all tv channels currently you are only breaking the records of JAHALAT. Although you are inviting British people to your CULT but they are rejecting you.Look at Abdul Aziz, your leadership is corrupt you have all characteristics of a CULT who will come to you. I will suggest you when you go to psychiatrist also discuss this issue he is a right person dont waste time here.
taizdhar@live.com
TD why do you keep posting your email address. It's like giving me your number. Who is interest?
Delete@Also have you witnessed the new trend of churches becoming Ahmadi Mosques?
DeleteFYI in our local area 2 churches have been bought by the jews and the other by the hindus, very weak and lame excuse of breaking the cross and another point is that one jew converted to Islam and not ahmadiyyat.
You are proudly telling us that hindus and jews are also breaking the cross, so where does that leave your type of Muslims. What are you doing to convert Christians into Muslims? Where are the Imams preaching Islam to the Christians? Instead they are wanting to demolish the Churces by force in the Holy Land.
DeleteDid you watch the video of Imam Sahib of London Mosque mentioning the Holy prophet (saw)'s name numerous times whilst standing in front of numerous Priests at a HUGE Cathedral?
@ Abu Musa
That is what you call a 'defender of Islam' my brother in Islam.
I respect brother Farhan because he understands the concept of Jihad with the pen. He takes part in it every day. However I feel it's a shame that he only chooses to believe in some of the writings of the Promised Messiah (as).
@ TD
ReplyDeleteAre you denying the fact that Jamaat has taken over churches in UK? Yes you are correct it has been big news so much so that it has appeared on news channels, you only need to look on youtube. Maybe you should go to the opticians.
I do not understand your urdu lingo so please stick to English if you can.
BBC is a big big news channel TD
ReplyDeleteHave you heard of it? Or maybe I'll ask the psychiatrist.
How ironic that this is in the news this week:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgjK0HUmRL4
Happy Promised Messiah day to all readers, with love to the Sunnis.
ReplyDeleteHappy Promised Messiah day? BWAHAHAHAHA
DeleteCULT!!
We celebrate Happy Prophet Muhammad day too.
DeleteThanks.
Taizdhar Sahib tussi news nahin sunde?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.expressandstar.com/news/2012/03/19/former-churches-find-new-life-as-mosques/
Ik chorke do churches converted into mosques just this week !!!
If you were sharp (taizdhar) enough you would understand. I think it's a blunt blade. LOL
BAYGHARTO we all know how you collect CHANDAs you have money and you buy a building of a church this is called power of money. BAYGHARTO give me money I will buy a church it is very simple.
ReplyDeleteBAYGHARTO first understand the meaning of trend which is ‘a general development or change in a situation or in the way that people are behaving’ you bought two church buildings and you say you have started a new TREND it is nonsense you have very serious psychological problems you are all ‘Nafysati Mareez’. Go to a psychiatrist and explain your problem “we bought two church buildings and we use them as a mosque. Tell him this is a new trend that churches are becoming Ahmdiya Mosques”. You need psychiatrist not MULLAH.
TD
^LIKE LOL!
DeleteI think TD's return button is stuck on his keyboard, he is repeating the same thing.
ReplyDeleteYes you need money to convert a church into a mosque, your understanding of spending in the way of Allah is surprising.
@ Ik chorke do churches converted into mosques just this week !!!
ReplyDelete@Yes you need money to convert a church into a mosque, your understanding of spending in the way of Allah is surprising.
Normally Muslims buy a separate land then build a new building for Mosque. Muslims dont use a second hand building as a Mosque specially an old churches
BAYGHARTO why dont you build new building for your Mosque???? Why you prefer to buy an old Church????
We have big and beautiful Mosques much better than you have although we can give many examples but we dont because we are normal people and you are all ‘Nafsyati Mareez’ you have INFERIORITY COMPLEX no one gifted you these buildings you had money you bought them nothing strange.
BAYGHARTO you are not breaking cross. If I say a Rat is killing an Elephant will you believe me???? You are like a Rat only few Millions and Christians are like an Elephant 2.5 Billion. Look at yourself, look at your KHALIFA, look at your corrupt leadership, look at your system, look at your history and most important compare yourself to a CULT. If you think after one century since your prophet died you are a threat for Christianity then you are a ‘Nafsyati Mareez’. You can only fool yourself by converting two churches into mosques but in reality A RAT CANT KILL AN ELEPHANT
TD
These quadianis are deluded TD, they are boasting that they bought churches to make they claim about ahmadiyyat strong, WRONG! the fact is that less christians are attending these churches, also an economic factor plays a part too, they should only claim rightfully if those churches are filled with those ex christians turned ahmadis than it is another point altogether but no doubt you will find the same old punjabis with their inferiority complex towards the white man.
DeleteMuslims dont use a second hand building as a Mosque?
DeleteCould you elaborate on this please, just so that I can get a better understanding?
Jzk
@Could you elaborate on this please, just so that I can get a better understanding?
DeleteBuilding of Mosque has many unique characteristics like ‘MINARs’ ‘GUMBAD’ a dedicated separate place for IMAM, a separate place for WAZU, main hall and so on. A typical architectural structure of Mosque is very different than an ordinary building so its not easy to convert an ordinary building into a Mosque unless you rebuild it. Muslims follow many rules when they build a Mosque.
I have watched videos it seems Ahmadies are not rebuilding old structures. Also Muslims build Mosques only for ALLAH but it seems something wrong with their ‘NIYAT’ they want to achieve some other goals.
The Rat may kill (capture) the Elephant.
DeleteThis is done by the Rat crawling in the Elephant's ear and gnawing at his brains.
You seem to be more concerned about the look of a place of worship, rather than what goes on inside.
DeleteAll new Ahmadi mosques built from scratch have Minars. However there are laws in countries that prohibit the walls of a structure to be knocked down and rebuilt.
Who are you to speculate on somebody's 'niyat' ? Concentrate on your own self like a good Muslim should do.
TD You really need to follow the news channels, BBC again:
Deletehttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14366481
RATS use deadly arrow poison that is used TO KILL ELEPHANTS, so back to your question about whether I would believe you, the answer is Yes!
TD PWNED every time by Ahmadiyya.
ReplyDeleteTD Your view of reality is alarming. Even your own statements are false which shows the blind path you have chosen.
ReplyDeleteMESSAGE FOR THE WOMAN BEHIND THIS SITE:
ReplyDeleteYOU ARE AN UTTER DISGRACE TO MANKIND. TODAY MY 14 YEAR OLD SON CAME TO ME AND UTTERED VERY DISGUSTING WORDS ABOUT THE PROMISED MESSIAH AND HUZOOR. WE ASKED HIM WHERE HE HAD READ THIS FILTH AND HE SAID ALL HIS FRIENDS ARE READING THIS BLOG. HE HAS DECIDED THAT HE NO LONGER WANTS TO ATTEND HIS FOOTBALL TOURNAMENTS WITH HIS JAMAAT FRIENDS AND NO LONGER WISHES TO ATTEND JAMAAT FUNCTIONS. HE IS 14 YEARS OLD YOU STUPID STUPID STUPID GIRL! HOW DARE YOU SEND HIM AN EMAIL DIRECTING HIM TO THIS SITE AND PLUG YOUR POISONOUS VIEWS AND BRAINWASH HIM LIKE THAT. YOU ARE DESTROYING THE DEEN OF THESE CHILDREN BUT YOU CLAIM YOU ARE TRYING TO SAVE THEM,
AS A MOTHER I CURSE YOU AND THE PRAYERS OF A MOTHER NEVER GO UNANSWERED, I PRAY ALLAH PUNISHES YOU IN THIS LIFE AND THE NEXT FOR POISONING MY SON AGAINST ISLAM E AHMADIYYA AND I PRAY YOU SUFFER THE WAY ME AND MY HUSBAND ARE NOW SUFFERING. YOU ARE NOT WORTHY OF FORGIVENESS NOR ARE YOU WORTHY OF ANY MERCY YOU ARE A POISONOUS SNAKE WHO IS TRYING TO DRAG PEOPLE AWAY FROM ISLAM BECAUSE OF YOUR VERY APPARENT CONNECTIONS WITH THE ANTI ISLAMIC SAUDIA ARABIAN GOVERNMENT. WE ALL KNOW WHO YOU ARE. SHAME ON YOU AND LANAAT ON YOU I WILL CURSE YOU UNTIL THE DAY I DIE. I PRAY YOUR POOR PARENTS ARE FIT AND WELL ENOUGH TO SURVIVE THE HUMILIATION WHEN YOU ARE OUTSTED BECAUSE THERE ARE THOUSANDS PRAYING YOU DO. STAY AWAY FROM MY SON AND NEVER EMAIL HIM AGAIN.
"Love for all, hatred for none" !
DeleteShould this slogan be banned?
I can understand your feelings, this is not your son fault, basically this is your fault please read my complete post, although my English is not good but I will try my best to explain my point.
DeleteYou know Muhammad SAW is khaatim an Nabiyeen. Did you ever seriously try to know what the means of khaatim an Nabiyeen. I know your answer is NO may be you did but not seriously, the truth is khaatim mean SEAL not BEST.
In Arabic – all branched words come from a ‘root’. Eg: taking the verb ‘to love’ (this would be equivalent to an Arabic ‘root’).
Then from the root ‘to love’ – you can branch off many different words based on it eg: ‘The lover’, ‘The loved’, ‘The emphatic lover’, ‘I/you/he/we/they love’, ‘it was loved’, ‘I will love’ etc...
The root of word ‘khaatim’ is ‘kh –ta-ma’ – and its root meaning generally takes the form of seal or something that comes to an end.
@Abu Musa Please correct me if i am wrong
You can see yourself this word in Quran, we can find this word seven times following are all references (I have highlighted kh –ta-ma/SEAL):
[2:7] Allah has SEALED their hearts and their ears, and on their eyes is a covering; and for them is a terrible punishment. tanzil.net/#trans/en.ahmedraza/2:7
[6:46] Say, “What is your opinion – if Allah were to take away your hearing and your sight and SEAL your hearts, then is there a God besides Allah who could restore it for you?” Observe how We explain the verses to them, yet they turn away! tanzil.net/#trans/en.ahmedraza/6:46
[45:23] Just look at him who makes his desire as his God, and Allah has sent him astray despite his having knowledge, and set a SEAL upon his ears and his heart, and a covering upon his eyes; so who will guide him after Allah? So do you not ponder? tanzil.net/#trans/en.ahmedraza/45:23
[36:65] This day We will set a SEAL on their mouths, and their hands will speak out to Us and their feet will bear witness to their deeds. tanzil.net/#trans/en.ahmedraza/36:65
[42:24] What! They dare say that, “He has fabricated a lie against Allah”? And if Allah wills, He can SEAL your heart by His mercy and protection*; and Allah wipes out falsehood and proves the truth by His Words; indeed He knows what lies within the hearts. tanzil.net/#trans/en.ahmedraza/42:24
[83:25] They will be given pure wine to drink, which is kept preserved, SEALED. tanzil.net/#trans/en.ahmedraza/83:25
[83:26] Its SEAL is upon musk; and for this should those who crave be eager tanzil.net/#trans/en.ahmedraza/83:26
My point is you should try to know what the mean of ‘khaatim an Nabiyeen’ if you did not this is your fault. Just only research on this single word its enough, you can consult with native Arabic speakers or you can also find Abu Musa comments in this same post, believe me we dont come here for fun we have spent lot of time to know what is the reality. You should also spend your time to know who is wrong. The truth is you are brain washed no prophet can come after Muhammad SAW.
This is my message for your son…
Dear I exactly understand your feeling, thoughts, your position and everything I know more than you and I know what is better for you I will suggest you try to understand your parents feelings. Religion is only for Allah, Allah knows it is enough so you dont need to tell anyone specially any Ahmadi otherwise you will pay the price and even dont talk to your parents, Dont worry Allah will do something for you its my promise so wait, wait and wait. This is my request must attend your football tournaments and other jamat functions and wait, wait and wait.
TD
That was exactly my reaction when my son told me that he does not believe in ahmadiyyat, my wife and I were absolutely worried, this was almost 3 years ago, well before this blog.
DeleteWe did not react the way you have, to be honest my wife and I also lacked education on MGA and this ahmadiyyat so we both embarked upon our research which took a long time and with prayers along the way we felt what I son was telling us was indeed right and we were wrong.
My son approached as and the first thing he did was he put The Quran in front of us and showed us this verse:
[AL-Baqra 2:171] And when it is said to them, ‘Follow that which Allah has sent down,’ they say: ‘Nay, we will follow that wherein we found our fathers.’ What! even if their fathers had no sense at all and no guidance?
Please be patient and do not blame others if your son questions you about faith, it is his right.
Another point there is no such thing as Islam-e-Ahmadiyya
It's pure Islam!
And to the young boy, if your parent's allow you to read this blog, please do not call bad names to
anyone's believes but do question your faith, Islam and also ahmadiyyat, question your heart and Allah has given us brains to decide what is right and I am sure you will find the peace you are searching in faith.
Dear mother of a believer. Are you upset because your son is guided like ibraheem (as) was guided? And that Allah has supplied the truth that has unlocked the door in his pure innocent heart? A door that YOU locked by forcing beliefs that you don't understand down his throat? Why don't you take the time out to talk to your son, try to understand why he doesn't believe in your religion anymore. Why don't you do your own research too. I know it must be the most painful thing in the world to even think your parents where wrong but you owe it to your son to at least listen to him. The girl behind this blog must face curses like this on a daily and only Allah knows the real affect it must have on her life. She is under the protection of the one who made the fire cool for ibraheem (as) so your curses are harming none but yourself and your son. she is a rare stone that is refracting the light of Allah on to the blind. May Allah give her firdoss and protect her from the evil of created things. Please give your son my salaam and tell him he is in my Duas :)
DeleteDefeat Christians? The Ahmadiyya Jamaah have already defeated atheists in discussion. Did you see the reaction of the atheists? The opposition drew pictures mocking the Holy prophet (saw) out of DEFEAT. Just like the pictures on this blog. Do you see similar characteristics between YOU and ATHEISTS? Well I doubt you ever will. Anyhow, where are the 'defenders of Islam' now? You are hush.
ReplyDeleteJazak'Allah for acknowledging your confusion/error about rats. You went from CANT to CAN. Ask your Mullah he will probably give you same NONSENSE!
As for doing 'something new this time', time will tell...
Don't get impatient and please calm down, your blood pressure is constantly high. Have a mango flavoured SHEZAN to cool you down. It's on the house...
Also TD count the times you have said 'nafsiyati mareez' and compare it to the times you mention our beloved Holy Prophet (saw)'s name. In fact get Findings to help you, she is good at counting. How many times was it this Jummah?
ReplyDelete@Defeat Christians? The Ahmadiyya Jamaah have already defeated atheists in discussion.
ReplyDelete‘Nafsiyati Mareez’ can defeat anyone in their imagination or thoughts. You are ‘Nafsiyati Mareez’ I know you can do everything. Come to reality who says you have defeated Christians other than you?
BAYGHARTO you are combination of JAHALAT and psychological problems your case is very serious. Go to a good psychiatrist.
Ahmadi women just interrupt, gossip, backbite and commit all kinds of sins in their masjids ... something that the "A" won't tell you ... even that fat pregnant looking oaf mas got angry at them at a jalsa recently because of their behavior ...
ReplyDeletethere is a reason why Rasoolullah (saaw) said it is better for a women to perform her prayers at home ...
@ the Rationalist 03.04 PM
DeleteFurther proof that you have lost the argument against Ahmadiyya because you have nothing left but to throw insults and mockery...
Leave the 'gossip and backbite' to the women and BE A MAN.. (Russell Peters)
How exactly has ahmadiyya won?
DeleteDid you ever answer any of the previous blogs questions.
Ahmadi people are the most arrogant people I have ever come across.
Thumbs up if you LOVE Ahmadiyyat...
DeleteAnon 03.15am
DeleteAhmadiyya wins every time with logic and rationality. Did you not notice what happened to previous blog? Comments stopped ie. End of discussion!
Do you think Ahmadis are arrogant because their arguments are deeper than what you can comprehend and they leave you speechless?
And to be honest with regards to how Ahmadiyya won, one only needs to read comments on this blog to see how blind you truly are. And then to top it all off your reactions are hillarious >>> 'oh mas is a fat oaf blah blah' . Losers, bring something meaningful.
DeleteTD you may use 'different approach' but each time you are left looking like a THICKO with your false analogies that you slap you in your own face.
The other blogs comments were put to a stop because of vile language used and a lot of hatred coming from the ahmadis not because it was based on your comments.
DeleteStop making yourself look superior to others, ahmadiyyat is not Islam and does not mean that I have to be an ahmadi to be saved, I follow just Islam and not Islam e ahmadiyya as one person has stated.
Only Allah (swt) knows what is in my heart and I feel confident enough to say that your cult is false.
I would be very weary on people who keeps saying we are blind, maybe we are maybe we are not, you cannot decide that.
Please get over yourselves that you won on previous blogs, you never came across references in the Hadiths that were presented to you.
For the record I do not insult Mirza Masroor with names and I definately do not refer to YOUR MURRABIS unlike the ahmadis who have nothing but calling people THICKO AND YOU MULLAH'S.
You only think you have won by the criteria set by yourself, e.g. converting churches into mosques etc. But you have yet to prove that MGA was anything but a liar. Do you remember the blog post about the sahih ahadith prophesy the coming of the Masih in the 14th century? Can you show them please?
DeleteSo all of a sudden people have stopped abusing on this blog and all comments are allowed once again? What a cop out! I'm still waiting for a response. In fact I am waiting for tens of responses if I scroll through your blog. And they are just basic questions which end all discussions.
DeleteYou are right, I cannot decide if you are blind but how does it not work the other way round? How on Earth did you become the 'chosen one' to decide my faith is false? Are you an angel? Extra pious are we? Did God talk to you? Do you believe God still talks to his people? I believe he does and he guides me every day Alhumdullilah.
Your arguments are becoming weaker by the day because you have totally run out of topics. Look at your forum, everything that needed to be discussed has been discussed. Now what's left is photo-shopping pictures and making perverted videos to mock the members of the Promised Messiah's (as) Jamaat and get some attention. Way to go Cult Info.
It's nonsense and any neutral person can conclude who the real sore losers are. If you do not win an argument online then it's time to expose pictures and videos. And if it's face to face then it's time to get physically violent because of your twisted view of Jihad.
And how did I know that the 14th Century hadith is what it ALL COMES DOWN TO...
1,240 years...
When you see hadith with such an exact number how can you possibly flog them off as weak. You're good at counting Findings I have faith in you.
"Stop making yourself look superior to others"
DeleteIf that's how it is coming off then there is nothing I can do, Ahmadiyyat must be superior over all religions then.
I do not have a chip on my shoulder. I do not think I am superior to anyone here, quite the opposite. I looked up to a lot of your teachers and preachers at one time. But then it all went down hill with them...
I'm not Findings. And I would like to see a source for this hadith please.
DeleteYour personal beliefs do not matter. Ahmadiyya is based on MGAs teaching, and he has been proven a liar. Sahih ahadith (so at least two hadith) regarding the 14th century please. I'm sure you will agree that evidence from Quran and Hadith is the best way to establish MGAs truth or falsehood rather than see how many churches one can convert into mosques, right?
We can go in circles here, no clear cut winners,each to their own, Allah guides to those he wants and I don't have to justify to you ahmadis why my believe in ahmadiyyat is not in my heart, I am sure you believe is right for you then so be it, but I would most certainly do not go round saying "we are the true Islam, the saved sect", I respect each religion that believes in the unity of God and who does good deeds.
DeleteThis is not a religion of competition on who won on this blog.
Your jamaat never allows anyone to question which is not a good thing, I learnt more from the forum then I ever did with this cult.
Once realizing the falsehood of ahmadiyyat after doing my own research there is a ocean of knowledge to learn on Islam, something that ahmadiyyat does not focus on unless off course it's MGA, khalifat and chanda, those 3 factors are not about Islam you know!
Each day I learn something new and I truely believe I am mentally content in my own believes but I also respect and understand your believe but I only wish that you would open your mind just a little and see the other side.
You do not go around saying "we are true Islam" but you have the authority to go around saying "Ahmadiyyat is false" ? How does that work? You respect each religion apart from Ahmadiyyat you mean?
DeleteI also learnt more from the forum then I did anywhere else BUT that was due to my own circumstances and lack in interest in Islam, let alone Ahmadiyyat.
Do your new found beliefs tell you that God is limited to space? ie. is he not everywhere? and so on... I could never be mentally content with such beliefs after comparing them to Ahmadiyya beliefs. I saw the other side but it was a lot darker.
@I looked up to a lot of your teachers and preachers at one time. But then it all went down hill with them...
Delete--------------------------------------------------------
I really found this absurd, there are numerous scholars of Islam that has a wealth of knowledge to be learnt.
What has your khalifa and your teacher's contributed to Islam, what inspirations have they given to the people? your khalifa has to have everything written down for him and even at that he cannot inspire people. I have seen fantastic Islamic scholars who do not need to read from what others wrote but they speak from the heart and very inspiring!
I agree there are various scholars who know how to talk the talk. If you find them inspiring then each to their own. If you don't find the Khalifa inspiring then that's your personal opinion but it will always be biased because you have rejected Ahmadiyyat.
DeleteI find the Khalifa extremely inspiring, you can all laugh as much as you want. I find him to be the most humble man alive when I meet with him. He eyes are focused on me when addressing the females in my family. Quite the opposite to what you guys are trying to portray of him. And it's things like that that really puts Ahmadis off. Hence the reason why you are talking to one random Ahamdi and not tens.
I have met Mirza Masroor and I am sorry he just did not inspire me at all, I am a female so I beg to differ in regards of not starring and at that time I was like you, totally blind to this cult.
DeleteEach to their own I guess and no you have not won because you a one random person who believes that Mirza Masroor is inspiring than why is it that large majority of ahmadis that I know thinks otherwise!
Mirza Masroor a humble man? Driving a Merc, surrounded by body guards, planning on building himself a mansion in Wandsworth (check the Wandsworth Council planning website if you don't believe me)? Humble, really?
DeleteRead the biography of Umar (ra). He, Ameer ul Momineen, head of a vast empire (and living in lands of the kuffar), travelled alone with a servant and one camel from Medina to Jerusalem. SubhanAllah! Are you really telling me Mas has more enemies than Umar ra? He doesn't even walk from his office to the mosque without a bodyguard. At Jalsas he takes the car from his house at the entrance to the main Jalsa Gah. That's what, 400 meters? Medina to Jerusalem, two people, one camel, 565 miles.
All of the khulafa e rashideen put your fake leaders to shame. So please don't tell us that Mas is a humble man, it's insulting.
And there is plenty of evidence that Mas does not do as he preaches. It turns Ahmadis off? Well so be it, it's still the truth. But then, Ahmadis being turned off by truth is nothing new. That's what blind people do, that's what members of a cult do. They turn away and pretend it didn't happen. Your personal stories are irrelevant.
And now the sahih ahadith please. Why do you Ahmadis always run away when the discussion turns to your founder? It's like you're almost ashamed of him. Maybe because he dreamt of married women (Muhammadi begum)?
I think large majority of ahmadis have not MGA books, they just follow blindly what Mirza Masroor says and you are right he is not humble at all, you mean to say that everything that is going on in the administration, ie Raf, Nas and many others he knows nothing of this, why does he not than get rid of those corrupted people and learn to take care of the jamaat himself, if he is a divine person than he should be able to.
DeleteAlso true when it comes to the leader they do run away, why have Quran exhibitions when you really should be showing the books of MGA why don't you do that and show it to the general white people or the MPs that you invite to show how peace loving you lot are and behind closed doors you throw women out of the jamaat who demands her civil and islamic right.
Read your founder's books and listen and read what some ex ahmadis are saying, we are not just random people talking here we too have families that are taken away from us.
LOL @ Mansion.
Deletehow many Mansion FLATS are there in Southfields?
Imagine seeing a camel in England lol
DeleteCLASSIC
@AnonymousMar 27, 2012 08:19 AM
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Za1buqwXQo&feature=g-all-u&context=G2f169d4FAAAAAAAAAAA
I hardly think that Mirza Masroor can do such sermons!
Ahmadiyya is not Islam, after you made MGA a prophet it is a new religion altogether, it is based on falsehood, where in the Quran does it mention wassiyat, waqf-e-nau, chanda and aims card, lol!
DeleteYou said it's a darker side on the other side but in ahhmadiyyat it is also a terrible place to be with your cult like behaviour, in fact that is more dangerous, at least I can practice in the sense I feel right for me.
I do believe God is everywhere and is with everyone and just with ahmadis so why the big issues with the darker side, not all Muslims are bad there are good pious people there too, just like ahmadis there are good people and also bad, if you cannot see the darkness of ahmadiyyat then sorry that you are totally blinded, take your khalifa, what has he exactly done apart from smiling and your jamaat boasting on how we pleased the white man today, what exactly has he done about the corruption in his administration and what about injustices done to innocent ahmadis who were expelled by your amir, stalking, looking at girsl photos, threatening parents of expulsion, the list can go on and on.
In fact it is ahmadiyyat that is dark!
Watch the UCL debate you may learn something.
ReplyDeleteYes you will defeat them by demolishing their Churches. Watch out for the wrath of Allah to follow.
Anyway TD you are getting monotonous and boring. You are repeating the same nonsense. Goodbye you are the weakest link.
Wasalam
Remember a Shezan a day keeps the Mullah away.
wow, what progressive thoughts! so you are saying women are deficient, right? can't believe, still stuck in medieval times... men don't gossip? they are so much better than women....
ReplyDeletei did not write that, besides i addressed the women issue
DeleteHave you been to the dafters or 'offices' where you have jamaat officials 'working'.
DeleteThe men gossip better than some women (exception to the rule is Mrs Shakira Rafiq Hayat) No one gossips in a more malicious manner than this women.
Hasn't the writer of the above just turned 30? How embarrassing Mr Rash! You really are inspiring NOT.
Delete@Yes you will defeat them by demolishing their Churches. Watch out for the wrath of Allah to follow.
ReplyDeleteOK you have demolished two churches but there are more than 15000 churches in UK.
JAHIL INSAN BAQI 14998 KO TERA BAAP DEMOLISHED KARAY GA
BAYGHARTO if I and my friend leave UK and migrate to an African country does it mean all British people are leaving UK and migrating to African countries. Similarly you only demolished two churches and please dont tell me how many you have demolished in last TWO WEEKS give me the figure of last TWENTY YEARS. You are all ‘Nafsiyati Mareez’
@Anyway TD you are getting monotonous and boring…
I totally disagreed, you should not get bored because every time I use different approach to prove you are a ‘Nafsyati Mareez’. I will repeat this until you dont go to a psychiatrist.
@Remember a Shezan a day keeps the Mullah away…
Remember LOVE FOR ALL love me ‘Nafsyati Mareez’
BAYGHARTO If you dont like word ‘BAYGHART’ then read MGA books you will be used to. This is the only thing which I learned from MGA.
TD
who else from the fourteenth century can contend? pick some one? bc hadhrat mirza ghulam ahmad of qadiaan is the outstanding individual of the age. No other indiviual single-handidly delivered khilfat as prophesiced in THE HOLY QU'RAN.
ReplyDeletethis is the first time i'm posting. i am very sad about how you feel towards the Jamaat. But part of being an excellent muslim in Allah's eyes is forgiving people who you feel wronged by most.
Can you show us where the sahih ahadith that state the Imam Mahdi and Masih will return in the 14th century?
Delete@No other indiviual single-handidly delivered khilfat as prophesiced in THE HOLY QU'RAN.
Delete----Where we can find this in Quran. Even you cannot give me any reference from MGA books.
@i am very sad about how you feel towards the Jamaat.
----Yes its very sad. Tell me how you feel when you read about Abdul Aziz Khalifa in this same post.
You are innocent you are 100 percent brain washed you need sometime to accept the reality.
TD
Kindly explain thou chosen ones why do Ahmadis can't go to Mecca to perform one of the obligations in Islam. Bla bla on Saudis restricts this, sanctions that .... these are man made rules. Think for a moment why many unchosen ones get to enter Mecca but the allegedly chosen ones have to hide their faith and even if they get to sneak into Mecca, divisions occur during prayer times for Ahmadis cannot pray behind non Ahmadis' imam. YOU CALL THIS UNITY IN ISLAM? So cut the crap on yr allegedly khilafat when you are unblessed to carry out one of the tenets in Islam. The acid test - let the current leader of Ahmadiyya declare openly to perform hajj and see whether God supports your movement or otherwise. My two cents worth wrt all the claims that Ahmadiyyat is from God.
DeleteTD don't worry about last 20 years or last 2 weeks, worry about now and what's about to come...
ReplyDeleteThese are just the previews and highlights of what's about to come your way............. You have no idea.
TD
ReplyDeleteJamaat seems to be on a MOSQUE mission. They keep on constructing houses of God, another foundation stone laid in UK, more mosques to be built and purchased. It just keeps getting better for the "A".
We won't stop, cos we can't stop !
@TD don't worry about last 20 years or last 2 weeks, worry about now and what's about to come...
ReplyDelete----We all know this blog is a very serious issue in your JAMAT you could not stop a girl this is your OKAAT. Whats about to come? Are you going to start a world war three or you going to a psychiatrist? You are threatening like a ‘Nafsyati Mareez’ dont threatening us only tell your plans what are you going to do this time?
@These are just the previews and highlights of what's about to come your way...
-----We have been watching such previews and highlights since 18th century your picture is already too late. Now stop this nonsense and accept you are all ‘Nafsyati Mareez’
BAYGHARTO TUM DARATAY TO BOHAT HO HOTA KUCH BHI NAHIE
@We won't stop, cos we can't stop !
-----YES, you will not stop and no one can stop you because you are a ‘Nafsyati Mareez’. You think exactly like a ‘Nafsyati Mareez’
@ Ahmadiyya wins every time with logic and rationality… Do you think Ahmadis are arrogant because their arguments are deeper…
-----A ‘Nafsiyat Mareez’ always wins in his imagination tell me who says you have won other than you, ‘Nafsiyat Mareez’ also thinks his arguments are deeper and he is talking with logic. Could you please logically tell me whats the mean of ‘Khaatim an Nabiyeen’ and the root word ‘Khaatim’
@And to be honest with regards to how Ahmadiyya won, one only needs to read comments on this blog to see how blind you truly are.
-----BAYGHARTO You dont know about your own claims but I know and I know what you have done in last one hundred years. I am sure you are all ‘Nafsyati Mareez’ so I cant believe you. IS THERE ANY THIRD PARTY WHO SAYS YOU HAVE WON?
Every ‘Nafsyati Mareez’ says like you ‘I won’, ‘I won’, ‘I won’, ‘I won’, ‘I won’, ‘I won’ he dont care “HOW’, ‘WHEN’, ‘WHERE’… and he wont care even whole world say you are a looser like in your case 1.6 billion Muslims unanimously say to a group of ‘few million’ that you are a looser. It is very interesting you dont even know about your targets or goals but you only know you have won. You are all ‘Nafsyati Mareez’
TD
Well said TD :)
DeleteThe majority of people follow conjecture and will lead you astray.
Deletekeep it up TD
DeleteTD it's not a threat, far from it..I'm giving you the heads up for the new mosque mission! We will keep building and building inshAllah..
ReplyDeleteAs for WW3 well you know what our beloved leader thinks about that one...
In the meantime you concentrate on the THIRD party.. while we bow down to the ONE.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Peter%27s_Basilica
DeleteSt. Peter's Basilica is one of the largest Churches when you are going to convert it into mosque? BAYGHARTO look at your ‘OKAAT’ A RAT CANT KILL AN ELEPHANT.
Also look at Muslims Mosques and compare them with your Mosques.
You are starting mosque mission after one hundred years.
BAYGHARTO 100 YEARS JHUK MARI HAY TUM NAY? AB YAD AYA HAY?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ahmadiyya_Muslim_Community_buildings_and_structures
Delete15,000 mosques in 100 years is good going for a 'minorty group' TD.
You are showing me the largest Church because....???
And you're back to your false analogy about rats. At least use one that is correct TD.
TD don't you think churches are beautiful looking buildings? Imagine your leaders want to demolish them.
DeleteWould you knock this Church down or do you wish that one day you can read namaaz there?
That was a beautiful picture by the way, it looks just like a Mosque.
DeleteLOL @ 'third party!'
ReplyDeleteIs there any reference to the 'third party' in Hadith or Quran? Or is this how you personally decide what is true and what is false? Good luck.
BAYGHARTO atleast tell christans that you have defeated them, they are totally unaware about your so called great victory.
DeleteThe above BAYGHARTO sounds can be seen ALL OVER youtube with Mullahs sounding like something from hell. They are the LAST people on Earth I would follow.
DeleteAhmadiyyat all day.
Which Christians? I saw about 5 in total at the last church I went to? And do they really need to be told their faith is dying? Ever heard of the church closure crisis? And you brag about Christianity being more stronger now then it ever was?
ReplyDelete"Sahih ahadith (so at least two hadith) regarding the 14th century please"
ReplyDeletefirst it was one.. now you require two? look do you know anyone who is good with numbers? like a third party?
Well your prophet said sahih ahadith. So yeah that'd be at least two.
DeleteHow many hadith that mention 'exact numbers' does mainstream Islam reject and why?
ReplyDeleteThis is just a random question from a random brother who just needs a damn good answer.
Jzk
Did the Promised Messiah (as) give an exact number of these hadith? He didn't did he?
ReplyDeleteHe said 'ahadith' which is plural. Which is why I'm asking for at least two. Duh! But let's begin with one.
DeleteAnd a big shout out to Farhan Khan & Nabeel Qureshi for leading me back to Ahmadiyyat. You people inspire me.
ReplyDeleteThere's only one thing stopping me from doing Wasiyaat..
ReplyDeleteDo I 'deserve' to be buried with pious members of my family? The ones my family referred to as 'naik'? Our late grandmas who used to dress in all white!
This wassiyat system is a scam it's not part of Islam. If you think it is show us proof from Quran and Sunnah. Remmeber Islam was completed 1400 years ago.
DeleteOnly God will let me know if he opens my heart to accept Wasiyyat
ReplyDeleteinsh'Allah
And that's my story. I will leave you in peace.
Open your heart then open you wallet at the same time, to the tune of 10-33%. Imagine you have a property in London worth £666,000 - which is feasible - well be prepared to give £222,000 of that to Jamaat OK. Your niyyat is pure so you will probably get the reward for that money, but what is the Jamaat gonna do with it ey ? Hmmmmmmmmmm . . . naib ameer Nas Khan comes to mind, no ?
Delete@15,000 mosques in 100 years is good going for a 'minorty group'
ReplyDeleteYES, this is your ‘OKAAT’ you are a minority group, always remember it.
You also claimed that your population is 200 Million and we all know you are in few millions. You dont have 15,000 mosques but I am assuming you have and your current claim is Ahmadies are 8Million.
80,000,000/15,000=5,333
I am assuming half are women and kids so 5,333/2=2,666
We all know the importance of ‘NAMAZ’ and obviously you know better because you are from ‘ILLAHI JAMAT’ and we all know every follower of promised Massih go to Mosque five times every day. My question is do you have 2,666 ‘NAMAZI’ in each Mosque????
BAYGHARTO go to your prayer halls and count ‘NAMAZI’ or ask to Findings for counting.
If you look at your claims 15,000 is not good in 100 years. We all know how you collect Chandas and you have lot of money and this is power of money so dont be confused.
@You are showing me the largest Church because....???
BAYGHARTO because you are not ordinary people you are chosen people. Look at your claims you should not be afraid. Accept my challenge and convert it into your Mosque. Extra ordinary task for extra ordinary people.
TD
@The above BAYGHARTO sounds can be seen ALL OVER youtube with Mullahs sounding like something from hell
ReplyDeleteBAYGHARTO I and MULLAHs read MGA books these are the side effects of reading his books. Its very interesting we read MGA books but follower of promised Messiah dont. Read MGA books you will say BAYGHART is a very small word.
Here they come crawling out of the woodwork !! But the topic of discussion has gone from churches to ARNDALE shopping centre????????
ReplyDeleteYour forum needs an upgrade and I don't mean the layout and colour scheme. I'm talking about it's content!
It's Southside brother LOGIC, what century are you living in??? You don't deserve that username no more. Why are you flopping?
Please answer some of the question proposed above for the general interest of the poor confused public readers.
In fact write a post about it!
Jzk
Why dont you put up the mumbojumbo video again??!??!!
ReplyDeleteOh wait he already did ...
The Holy Prophet (saw) says ‘After the passing of 1240 years Imam Mahdi will be raised’. According to our understanding, The Holy Prophet (saw) passed away in 633 AD. 1240 years after that would be 1873. The Promised Messiah (as) was born in 1835, began to have revelations whilst middle aged, made his claim in 1889 and passed away in 1908. What an astounding fulfillment of the prophecy in the hadith, which confirms the truth of both our master the Holy Prophet (saw) and his servant The Promised Messiah (as). Surely this hadith alone is enough to prove the truth of Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad?
ReplyDeleteWow you guys are gassing way too much get back to the topic and explain your currupt Khalifa Abdul Chanda I mean the one who calls himself Abdul azeez the Canadian guy. Why are you talking about random churches tell us why your jammaat is so currupt?
ReplyDelete