Saturday, 7 April 2012

Mirza and a Slap in the Face of Ahmadiyya: Pigott Affair


Salaam.

I want to share this with you, that was written by brother Tahir Hussain over at The Cult Blog some time last year. It is a killer blow to the dead beat and deceitful theology of the Ahmadiyya. Shortly after Ahmadiyya Awareness sites started discussing the Pigott Saga, the Ahmadiyya went into overdrive, trying to defend their false Prophet, namely on Rah-E-Huda. Even their most senior Murabbi, Maulana Ataul Mujib Rashid, was left speechless and was unable to offer any real explanation. I would ask all questioning Ahmadis to take out 5 minutes of your time to give this a read. It really shows just what kind of madman Mirza Ghulam Qadiani was, issuing death prophecies willy nilly and when they failed him, his community would come up with some half baked excuses to defend their Indian Messiah. Jheez Ahmadiyyat is so complicated! Drop the complications and come to Islam!
John Huge Smyth Pigott by Tahir Hussain:
In September 1902 a man by the name of John Hugh Smyth-Pigott of the Agapemonites made claim to be God incarnate coinciding with his proclamation that he was the Second Coming of the Messiah on Earth. Upon hearing this claim Mirza Ghulam Ahmad informed J.H. Smyth-Pigott of his impending doom within his lifetime if he persists in his claim that he is God and does not repent i.e. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad would live to see the death of J.H. Smyth-Pigott of the Agapemonites or Pigott would repent during his lifetime.

Agapemonites, translated as “Adobe of Love” in Greek, was a Christian religious sect existing from 1846-1956 established in Somerset, England. The Agapemonites or Community of The Son of Man were founded by Henry James Prince (1811-1899), who broke away from the Church of England in claiming that the Holy Ghost had taken up residence in his body. He ironically claimed to be immortal but died in 1899 and was succeeded by John Hugh Smyth-Pigott, he too claimed immortality and after his death the cult went into decline until the last member died in 1956.

The Agapemonites beliefs centred around eccentric views on marriage, the Messiah, immortality and the role of women. On September 7th 1902, John Hugh Smyth-Pigott, born 1852, proclaimed that he was the Second Coming of the Messiah and that he was “God not man” and stated “God is no longer there” pointing upwards, “but here” pointing to himself, thus sparking riots in the streets of London as several thousand people mocked the congregation and chased him to shouts of ‘hypocrite’ as he resorted to police protection to resist the attacks. Consequently, J.H. Smyth-Pigott relocated to Somerset where he continued his movement centred around power, sex, money and womanising by demanding a chain of brides, allegedly seven a week, whom he named ‘soul brides’, later investigations showed that these ‘soul brides’ were not only spiritual but physical too, and some produced illegitimate children. He was defrocked by the Church of England under the Clergy Discipline Act on a charge of immorality as a result of his illicit affairs to which his reaction was “I am God. It does not matter what they do”. He died at the age of seventy-five from influenza and was succeeded by Douglas Hamilton who did not have the youth or the charisma to enable the movement to grow. The movement itself gradually ceased to exist due to the boast of immortality of its leaders who then passed away negating the belief of their alleged undying life.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad came to know of the claim put forward by J.H. Smyth-Pigott and in response, a disciple of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Mufti Muhammad Sadiq, wrote in English for Mirza Ghulam Ahmad a letter to be circulated in England directed towards J.H. Smyth-Pigott. The letter/leaflet was entitled ‘A Warning To A Pretender To Divinity’.
“J.H. Smyth Pigott, Pastor of… London, has recently announced himself as God… on the 7th and 14th of September 1902… God has, therefore, commanded me to warn him… I, therefore, warn him through this notice that if he does not repent of this irreverent claim, he shall be soon annihilated, even in my life-time… God has borne witness to my truth with heavenly signs shown in thousands… The death of Mr. Pigott within my life-time shall be another sign of my truth. If I die before Mr. Pigott, I am not the true Messiah nor am I from God… God shall bring the false Messiah to destruction within the life-time of the true one… 24th November 1902.” (A Warning To A Pretender To Divinity)
http://www.qarchives.com/A_Warning_to_A_Pretender_to_Divinity
The above letter cannot be found on the official website and even Ahmadiyya lists, compiled to detail the works of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, fail to mention this letter/leaflet presented above. It is unsurprisingly unknown, unlisted and unavailable in order to suppress the failed prophecy contained within it. Why would they hide the works of their Prophet/Mahdi/Messiah? Why would they hide the alleged words of God contained within this ‘prophecy’? This material has been hidden from followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad for obvious reasons, however thorough research will always lead one toward the truth and as much as the Ahmadiyya community have tried to suppress this subject, scatters of remnants can be found on the official website which eventually echoes the reality of this prophecy. The first indication outside of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad himself comes from his second successor and son, Mirza Bashir Mahmud Ahmad.
“Hazrat Mirza Sahib… issued another leaflet sometime in 1903. This leaflet was called Prophecies about Dowie and Piggott. Piggott was a pretender in England… he prayed: ‘God, ordain that the falsehood of Piggott and Dowie may soon become patent to people.’ This leaflet also was published in the West on a very large scale. Newspapers in Europe and America commented upon it. The Glasgow Herald in Britain and the New York Commercial Advertiser in America published summaries of it. Millions of persons came to know of it.” (An Invitation To Ahmadiyya – Argument 10 – Prophecies)
http://www.alislam.org/books/invitation/arg10.html
The rest of the section, in his book, ‘An Invitation To Ahmadiyya’, fails to mention J.H. Smyth-Pigott again but continues focusing on Alexander Dowie. However, Mirza Bashir Mahmud Ahmad mentions that the prophecy has been published in newspapers throughout Europe and America. The monthly eGazette on the official website gives yet more details on this subject and notice how this edition which utilises a newspaper article from 1907 only concentrates on Alexander Dowie and does not mention J.H. Smyth-Pigott in the slightest.
“What Did USA Newspapers Say About Alexander Dowie? The Sunday Herald, Boston, June 23, 1907 wrote, “Great is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad the Messiah Foretold Pathetic End of Dowie.” (April 2009 eGazette)
http://www.alislam.org/egazette/egazette/april-2009-egazette/
The April 2009 edition of the monthly eGazette magazine shows an image of an article entitled ‘Great Is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad The Messiah’ said to be contained in the Sunday Herald, Boston dated June 23rd 1907. You can’t help but notice that that image of the newspaper on the April issue of the official monthly eGazette (above) magazine is hard to read, more importantly, why have they completely ignored the prophecy concerning John Hugh Smyth-Pigott contained within it? The quote below taken from the newspaper article is in essence from the letter entitled ‘A Warning To A Pretender To Divinity’. The full image is given below and then a close up to verify the quote concerning J.H. Smyth-Pigott is given which reflects the letter entitled ‘A Warning To A Pretender To Divinity’.
“Great Is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad” (The Sunday Herald, Boston, June 23 1907)
Direct Link: http://www.thecult.info/forum/download/file.php?id=73
Below is a close up of the first column, specifically the bottom left hand paragraph:
“A sign of the evidence of God in my favor will appear on the death of Mr. Pigott, the arrogant pretender to divinity, who shall be brought to destruction within my lifetime…” (The Sunday Herald, Boston, June 23 1907)
http://www.thecult.info/forum/download/file.php?id=74
Let there be no doubt that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has prophesised that John Hugh Smyth-Pigott would die within his lifetime. In particular note the fact that he said “If I die before Mr. Pigott, I am not the true Messiah nor am I from God”. Below is verification of the date Mirza Ghulam Ahmad died.
“…died at Lahore on May 26th 1908” (Tadhkirah 2006 Version- Pg5)
Below is confirmation of the death of John Hugh Smyth-Pigott:
“After Smyth-Pigott died in 1927, the community went into gradual decline…” (The Telegraph – The Chapel Of Unrest)

In Conclusion
Recall the words of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad in relation to J.H. Smyth-Pigott, “…he shall be soon annihilated, even in my life-time… The death of Mr. Pigott within my life-time shall be another sign of my truth. If I die before Mr. Pigott, I am not the true Messiah nor am I from God…” What more evidence can one ask to establish the falsehood of this charlatan? Mirza Ghulam Ahmad died in the year 1908, 18 years, 9 months and 24 days before J.H. Smyth-Pigott, are you then surprised that this information is concealed from naive followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad? In his own words he states that should he die before the pretender J.H. Smyth-Pigott then he is not the true Messiah nor is he from God. History testifies that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad died more than 18 years before J.H. Smyth-Pigott and therefore his prophecy failed and consequently it proves that he was not from God. These were his conditions, his words and those of his God, not mine or those of any other individual.

This obviously creates a dilemma for his followers, and anyone who has come across previous failed prophecies with identical premises will already know the defence they would put up. The claim would be that J.H. Smyth-Pigott secretly repented within his heart and therefore the prophecy came true. However, this is far from the truth as a year after the death of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad who died in 1908, J.H. Smyth-Pigott was defrocked by the Church of England in 1909 on a charge of immorality to which his reaction was “I am God. It does not matter what they do”. Does this sound like he repented or intended to repent? In addition to this the followers of J.H. Smyth-Pigott proclaimed upon his death that their ‘Messiah’ lives for evermore as shown in the Australian newspaper, Argus and the statement from his granddaughter that his grave was left open because they expected him to rise. If this is not enough then refer to the quote below by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad that J.H. Smyth-Pigott will not repent.
“The Promised Messiah prayed about Piggott (a Priest of London who had claimed to be God) and saw in a dream some books on which was written three times: Holy, Holy, Holy; and then received a revelation (Arabic): Allah is Severe in retribution. They are not acting righteously. The Promised Messiah explained this as meaning that Piggott was in a bad way and would not repent and would not believe in God. There is also the indication that his claiming to be God is an evil thing and that he will be afflicted with God’s chastisement. It is a very daring thing to claim to be God (Badr Vol. I Nos. 5 and 6, Nov.8 and Dec. 5, 1902 p. 4).” (Tadhkirah 2006 Version – Page 531)
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Tadhkirah.pdf
Note: This link is for the 2009 version of Tadhkirah
In his own words, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has stated that J.H. Smyth-Pigott “would not repent and would not believe in God”. The smoke-screen cop out prophecy claim that he repented has no basis and no evidence supporting it. On the other hand, there exists unambiguous evidence that J.H. Smyth-Pigott did not repent and continued acting upon his absurd beliefs till the day he died. The first indication is from his followers who reacted as follows upon his death:
“March 21 (1927) The Rev T.H. Smyth-Pigott has died at the Spaxton Agapemone from influenza, and will be buried in the grounds where the founder, “Brother” Prince, was interred. The inmates refuse to admit the death as they profess to believe that their “Messiah” lives for evermore.” (The Argus – Abode Of Love – Agapemone Leader Dead)
http://ndpbeta.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/3844803
The following is an interview with Kate Barlow, the granddaughter of Pigott, about her book “The Abode of Love”. After After 42 minutes, Kate Barlow says:
It all went downhill once my grandfather died. It was such a shock, I know it sounds ridiculous, but they left the grave open because they thought he’d come back.
http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/2010/01/sot_20100103.mp3
(Thanks to Brother Fuad for the above link).
Quite clearly there is no indication of any repentance according to his followers. However, the Ahmadis have a tendency to use the secret repentance within the heart escape clause. This however is refuted by the official Ahmadiyya website itself (the irony) as Mubasher Ahmad writes the following regarding J.H. Smyth-Pigott:
“…the Church of England took stern action against him, and he was defrocked and thus utterly humiliated. But Smyth-Pigott persisted in his arrogance and announced: ‘I am God. It does not matter what they do.’” (Approaching The West – Page 16)
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Approaching_the_West-20080817MN.pdf
Clearly his response to being defrocked was ‘I am God. It does not matter what they do’. Below is an article from the broadsheet newspaper ‘The Independent’ which verifies that J.H Smyth-Pigott was defrocked in 1909, a year after the death of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.
“….the Rev John Hugh Smyth-Pigott succeeded him, was defrocked in 1909, but lived on at Agapemone until 1927.” (The Independent – Online)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/ooh-vicar-our-appetite-for-randy-rectors-1020519.html
And finally, further verification that in 1909 upon being defrocked, this was indeed his reaction:

“The response of the Church of England was to defrock Smyth-Pigott, but his reaction was: ‘I am God. It does not matter what they do’.” (The Abode of Love)
http://www.somersetgateway.com/aboutsom/somermag/may2000/abode.htm

Therefore it has been conclusively proven that J.H. Smyth-Pigott did not repent and continued claiming he was God after the death of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. The fundamental nature of this prophecy was outliving J.H. Smyth-Pigott in order to prove his truthfulness to the world. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad himself stated that J.H. Smyth-Pigott would be brought to destruction within his lifetime and therefore he would outlive him. Do not forget the words of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad in that should this not happen then he is not the Messiah nor is he from God. The fact remains that J.H. Smyth Pigott outlived Mirza Ghulam Ahmad by an astounding 18 years, 9 months and 24 days and at no point did he repent for his boast. For all the efforts of the Ahmadiyya movement to hide this information, truth remains and falsehood perishes for by its nature, falsehood is bound to perish.
All Praise Is Due To Allah (SWT).
I would like to thank Fuad Al-Attar, Akber Chaudry and Shahid Kamal for exposing this prophecy in the first instance. May Allah (SWT) reward them immensely and grant them Barakah for all their time and efforts in defending Islam.

42 comments:

  1. Amazing! this was also one of the reasons I questioned ahmadiyyat and there are off course many other failed prophecies of MGA which I think this cult would not make public to their followers.
    That is why we say do your research, do not just follow blindly, you will be amazed what nonsense ahmadiyyat is when you read their books.

    Good work!

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  2. Does anyone else have a feeling that these cult members are going to go off topic and blame "You Muslims" or "Your Mullahs" for something that is not related to this particular post!

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  3. This is very good post but it is little long so I am not very hopeful because I know Ahmedis brains are too small to read and understand such long post so I think they will not try to read it and they will assume all facts are wrong. I am sure no Ahmedi will try to defend his promised messiah thats why I call them ‘BAYGHART’ and again they will prove that I am right.

    I was reading a post of a ‘TRUE AHMEDI’ in previous blog who was researching on SIHAH SITTA (six major books of hadees) this is very interesting they will happily research on Quran and Hadees but they will never research on their own beliefs, MGA books and his life. They always try to find weak points in others but never look at their self. This is a sign of ‘Nafsyati Mareez’.

    Baygharto dont open your eyes but atleast accept, you are all ‘Nafsayati Mareez’

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    1. lol of course it is long that is why nearly all ahmadis havent bothered reading the ramblings of mirza..they are too long and full of crap. dont blame them. anything mirza related must be a bore but for those who genuinely fear for their Akhiras I am sure they will take the time to read.

      Delete
  4. Two things:

    A) Its worth mentioning that Rah-e-Huda produced an official response to this. They said Pigott retracted all public claims, which amounts to a repentance. However, this is demonstrably false. Pigott continued to claim divinity after MGA died, opened a new Church, and said "I am God".
    Newspapers proving this: http://www.qern.org/wiki/display/qarchives/John+Hugh+Smyth-Pigott

    B) This video documents the affair: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAHfOwzE9PA

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    1. Go an read the 'review of Religions' there is a special edition on this matter and the truth has been mentioned including what happened to him after Ahmad(as) died and his consequences Piggot dying in such a disgraceful way.
      And the real prophecy Ahmad(as) made and all of the prohecy is given not a part of it.

      Delete
  5. They love the age old argument of "he repented in his heart". they used the same stupid excuse for the Christian Priest Abdullah Atham. So lame.

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  6. @Findings @‘anything mirza related must be a bore’
    I dont agree, Muhamdi Begum is a very interesting story. If you want to laugh there are many funny ‘ILLAHMs’ eg. ‘We Can What We Will Do’ so I think it depends on topic. But still you are little lucky you read translated version of MGA books but we native urdu speaker read his books in original format we know better what he wrote, the truth is he was not a ‘Sultan ul Qalam’ even I can write better books.

    We are used to read quality stuff which is primarily based on Quran & Sunah thats why we find MGA prophecies and ‘ILLHAMs’ are nonsense because we have a general idea how Allah talk to humans and what basically Allah want from humans. A 5th grade student should not read trigonometry similarly this post is not suitable for brainwashed Ahmadies these unfortunate people are basically ‘Nafsyati Mareez’ they can only understand small phrases ‘Give Chanda’, ‘Love for all’, ‘Ilahai Jamat’, ‘Promised Messiah’, ‘Attach with Khilafat’ and so on.

    I think the major problem is follower of MGA have small brain or their IQ level is too low may be this is the actual reason they can be brainwashed very easily. Farhan, Shahid, Ch Akbar, AK Sheikh they were in same cult but they were intelligent guys so that was the reason this cult had failed to brainwashed them. I guess intelligent Ahmadies are continuously joining us currently they are silent and only observing and soon they will actively fight with us. THE WAR HAS BEGUN.

    @Researcher of SIHAH SITTA
    Why dont you use your knowledge and wisdom to defend your promised messiah? Where are you now? Does it mean you dont love your promised messiah or I am right that you are a ‘Nafsyati Mareez’

    TD

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  7. When was this blog handed over?

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  8. Cult members where are you?

    why have you not answered on this particular blog post? but instead you lot make fun of Brothers Farhan, TD and Ansari.

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  9. @Cult members where are you?
    @why have you not answered on this particular blog post?
    No one will answer you cult members are not visiting here they are too busy, if you think they are bayghairat and dont love their promised messiah then you are wrong. Actually I have convinced all Ahmdies that they are ‘Nafsyati Mareez’ now they regularly go to psychiatrist for proper treatment and dont come here.

    If you dont believe me then you can see yourself, no Ahmedi will accept your challenge and will not defend his promised messiah because they are not reading you except Shahabe Saqib, unfortunately his case is very serious he still believe that he is not a ‘Nafsiyati Mareez’ but I hope soon he will also accept the reality.

    TD

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    1. THE REASON AHMADI ARE NOT RESPONDING IS SIMPLY THIS IS A WASTE OF TIME. CULT GIRL HAS SAID SHE WOULD EXPOSE THE JAMAAT HER AIM WAS TO GET RID OF RAFIQ HAYAT AND SHE HAS FAILED!!! LOL AND NOW TO SAVE FACE SHE IS DOING AS ALL THE OTHER ANTI AHMADI SITE SPOUTING RUBBISH LOL WITH REGARDS TO THE POST IT IS EASILY ANSWERED THAT IS WHY WE ARE NOT PERPLEXED THE URDU PRO HUDA HAS DONE FULL DOCUMENTARY ON THIS AND INTERVIEWED THE GRAND DAUGHTER OF PIGOT SO PLEASE TAKE LOOK AND SEE HOW FOOLISH AND DISPARATE CULT GIRL IS,

      Delete
    2. @URDU PRO HUDA HAS DONE FULL DOCUMENTARY
      Documentary is in Urdu because they know you are idiots they can only fool you but they dont fool English people.

      @CULT GIRL HAS SAID SHE WOULD EXPOSE THE JAMAAT … SHE HAS FAILED!
      She is continuously exposing your cult she is doing her job. As far your case is concerned this is not her job to convince you. You are a ‘Nafsiyati Mareez’ this is the job of a psychiatrist.

      TD

      Delete
  10. J.H. Smyth Pigott, Pastor of… London, has recently announced himself as God… on the 7th and 14th of September 1902… God has, therefore, commanded me to warn him… I, therefore, warn him through this notice that if he does not repent of this irreverent claim, he shall be soon annihilated, even in my life-time… God has borne witness to my truth with heavenly signs shown in thousands… The death of Mr. Pigott within my life-time shall be another sign of my truth. If I die before Mr. Pigott, I am not the true Messiah nor am I from God… God shall bring the false Messiah to destruction within the life-time of the true one… 24th November 1902.” (A Warning To A Pretender To Divinity)
    http://www.qarchives.com/A_Warning_to_A_Pretender_to_Divinity


    PLEASE GIVE THE REF TO WHICH BOOK OF THE PROMISED MESSIAH (AS) WHERE HE HAS SAID THIS??? YOU REF IS NOT AHMADI SOURCE FIRST SHOW FROM HIS WRITINGS AND THEN I WILL SHOW WHERE YOU HAVE LIED!!!!!

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  11. If you are serious about the truth of this prophecy then go alislam.org and see the article answering this by brother Basit presenter of Huda. The prophecy was based on condition if pigot repented of claiming to be God he would be saved from punishment Pigot repented!!!! Punishment cancelled

    a little sample from alislam.

    " However, it is important not to ignore the allegation and look in to what was behind it. The foundation for this allegation rests on the fact that the Promised Messiah(as) passed away in 1908, while Pigott died in 1927. The announcement that the Promised Messiah(as) sent to Pigott and Western newspapers clearly stated that if Pigott did not abstain from his claim to godship, he would be destroyed instantly, and possibly during the lifetime of the Promised Messiah(as) . The actual words of the English text are as follows:

    ‘I therefore warn him through this notice that if he does not repent of this irreverent claim, he shall be soon annihilated.’

    It is a proven fact that during the lifetime of the Promised Messiah(as) Pigott never again reiterated his claim, and so remained safe from any punishment which could have engulfed him were he to have repeated his claim.

    hope you will post

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    1. I don't believe anything that your cult says in the huda programme or alislam, I did my own research and it is not what your cult says. ALL LIES!!!

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    2. I dont think you have read the article above. You will find that Pigott did not stop claiming to be God - even after the death of Mirza Gullam.

      Delete
    3. @It is a proven fact that during the lifetime of the Promised Messiah(as) Pigott never again reiterated his claim
      So you are saying promised messiah were not aware that Pigott will reiterate his claim after his death and Pigott fooled MGA successfully. Am I right?

      @‘I therefore warn him through this notice that if he does not repent of this irreverent claim, he shall be soon annihilated.’
      Repent=to be very sorry for something bad you have done in the past and wish that you had not done it
      It was very strange ‘Repent’ Piggot was waiting for your promised messiah death and he did same claim again!!!

      My English is not good could you please explain what is the meaning of repent. I dont believe in your promised messiah but if I want to repent what I have to do and what is the best way to repent?
      TD

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    4. I would strongly suggest you do research more diligently, I have read your article and I am not convinced I have also done a lot of research on this and I am afraid Pigot refrained from saying he was God and announced it in his Church, and while the Promised Messiah (as) was live he did not openly or publicly claim to be God. If you had done your research correctly you will that during the life of the Promised Messiah (as) Pigot repented! and left public life and lived in seclusion.

      " Smyth-Pigottt had learned his lesson at Clapton, that the opinion of the outside world still counted and he had no desire to face in Somersetshire the kind of demonstrations he had endured in London…..When (he) drove through the village he adopted the worldly role of a benign squire rather than that of the Messiah.’[5]


      Spaxton is located in the district of Somerset (highligted in map), East England.

      During this research, I came across many of Pigott’s sermons, personal diaries and letters from the Hackney Archive Centre. Further material was found with Pigott’s granddaughter, Ann Buckleys’ personal library, and from newspaper articles stored at the Somerset Archive Centre. All these sources clearly indicate that from November 1902 until 1908 i.e. during the Promised Messiah(as)’s lifetime, Pigott made no further claims to godship.

      Pigot stopped calling himself God during the life time of the Promised Messiah (as) that the point!!! what he done after the demise of the Promised Messiah (as) is between him and Allah (swt) you cannot hold accountable the Promised Messiah (as) what happened after his demise! the prophecy was based on condition!!! AND THAT CONDITION WAS THAT PIGOT MUST STOP CALLING HIMSELF GOD!!!! WHICH HE DID. Do research better and be brave to even look at our sources if you are going to be true to you accusations and not afraid of the truth then what have to be afraid of!!.

      I always look and what ever evidence is put before me even from non-Ahmadi sources.

      peace

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    5. still waiting for you to show from the writings of the Promised Messiah(as)

      " J.H. Smyth Pigott, Pastor of… London, has recently announced himself as God… on the 7th and 14th of September 1902… God has, therefore, commanded me to warn him… I, therefore, warn him through this notice that if he does not repent of this irreverent claim, he shall be soon annihilated, even in my life-time… God has borne witness to my truth with heavenly signs shown in thousands… The death of Mr. Pigott within my life-time shall be another sign of my truth. If I die before Mr. Pigott, I am not the true Messiah nor am I from God… God shall bring the false Messiah to destruction within the life-time of the true one… 24th November 1902.” (A Warning To A Pretender To Divinity)
      http://www.qarchives.com/A_Warning_to_A_Pretender_to_Divinity

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    6. According to you – Pigott stopped claiming holiness after Mirza sent the first threat.
      -Threat 1 to Pigott was 1902
      -His second threat was in 1903
      -And another threat (and from what I can ascertain, his last) in 1907

      Mirza Gullam died in 1908


      Firstly, if Pigott stopped claiming divinity, why the different & multiple threats? Surly one was enough at the beginning and Pigott would have stopped.

      Secondly, the Church defrocked him in 1909 – i.e. the year after Mirza died – thus an indication that he was still claiming silly things during and after Mirza died.

      Finally – for your claim to hold some weight, and surly you must agree with this – Pigott has to come out and say – ‘well actually folks, I am not God – sorry, I was just telling some porkies’ or ‘I saw my doom in a dream and the Mesiah warned me that God would destroy me if I dont repent’. Neither of these are recorded – or can we say, nothing is recorded in that fashion.
      Being quiet on the matter doesn’t really tell us anything.

      I do understand why this thread is v.quiet, this seems to be as far as I can see, the biggest blow to the Ahmadiyya in terms of a failed prophecy by Mirza Gullam.
      I hope the spreading of this thread and story of Pigott will help many of them realise that their religion is not Islam and to turn back to Allah (swt) and His messenger Muhammad (saw).

      Delete
  12. New Ahmadi Convert from Sunni Islam17 April 2012 at 09:16

    I think you are being thick as usual. The prophecy clearly says:

    I, therefore, warn him through this notice that if he does not repent of this irreverent claim, he shall be soon annihilated, even in my life-time…

    It is CLEARLY CONDITIONAL which is plain for even the most mentally challenged non Ahmadi Muslims out there. It also states "even im my lifetime" which clearly means in his lifetime but not restricted to. My God you people are thick.

    Further on it says "The Death of Mr Piggot within my life time SHALL" this is talking about an event in the future and is CLEARLY conditional i.e if it occurs it SHALL it does not say WILL.

    I need the name of all you thick as two short planks english teachers. I am going to have words... you are a disgrace to the language

    Peace

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    1. Mr. New Ahmadi Convert from Sunni Islam, please also tell us your name.

      Delete
  13. Let us make things clear. Firstly the challenge and Prophecy made by the Promised Messiah(as) was 1- If John Pigot did not stop his claim to being God, he would be destroyed by God and possibly during the life time of the Promised Messiah (as). So from the outset The Promised Messiah(as) was warning Pigot if you do not Repent!!! of your Shirk claim to be God, God will punish you and the punishment may happen in the life time of the Promised Messiah (as). This should be clear the Promised Messiah (as)did not say that Pigot would! be punished in his life time!

    " The announcement that the Promised Messiah(as) sent to Pigott and Western newspapers clearly stated that if Pigott did not abstain from his claim to godship, he would be destroyed instantly, and possibly during the lifetime of the Promised Messiah(as) . The actual words of the English text are as follows:

    ‘I therefore warn him through this notice that if he does not repent of this irreverent claim, he shall be soon annihilated.’

    So the Punishment was based upon ' Repentance' and history demonstrates that he did repent!.

    "When Pigott registered the births of his children, he described his occupation as ‘Priest in Holy Orders’. This is the same designation he used in 1889 on his marriage certificate before he had made any claims to godship, and again in 1905 after his child was born. This conclusively indicates that he never made any further claims to godship during the lifetime of the Promised Messiah(as). This was the purpose of issuing Pigott a warning, and we can see that this warning and other factors, such as the media uproar and the reaction of orthodox Christians, were instrumental in stopping Pigott from repeating his claim.

    therefore during the life time of The Promised Messiah (as) he never again claimed to be God!!! showing that The Promised Messiah (as) defended the tawhid of Almighty Allah (swt)and this was his only concern noting else and he was victories in this! otherwise if John Pigot was not afraid of the warning that the Promised Messiah (as) gave! John Pigot would have continued his claim in public but he not! and there was no sign of him making such a claim during the life time of the Promised Messiah (as) showing his repentance.

    If by asking the question about the meaning of " REPENT" and you expect that John Pigot should have vocally announced his remorse, repentance or shown some physical sign of his repentance. Well there are those who are brave and announce their regret and they are those who just silently fade away and keep quite and remove themselves from the public and this is what John Pigot had done.

    peace

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  14. Secondly:

    The Promised Messiah (as) clearly announced that John Pigot would never fully repent meaning he would not make any more claims during his life time but a time will come when he would again make the same claim!! and this happened showing the truthfulness of the Promised Messiah (as)

    " However in 1909, one year after the demise of the Promised Messiah(as), Pigott repeated his claim to godship. At the time he was living with a number of women whom he termed his ‘soul brides’. One of these was Ruth Preece, whom Pigott had given the title ‘Chief soul bride’. She bore him three children. When Pigott went to the local registrar of Somerset to record the names of these illegitimate children, the news got out, because he was also legally married to another woman. As Pigottt was a Church of England Reverend, the scandal spread like wildfire. The Church removed him from his post. The defiant Pigott declared, “I do not care for this decision, I am God!!” thus fulfilling the prophecy recorded in Tadhkirah.

    The Divine revelation granted to the Promised Messiah(as) was that Pigott would not repent and that his end would not be a good one. Indeed, it was from this point on, after he had once again reiterated his claim to godship, that his descent into ignominy began. Newspapers in the Somerset Archive Centre dating from this time are full of accounts of his adulterous relationships and illegitimate children.

    Gradually, Pigott’s mental health started to deteriorate. His favourite soul bride, Ruth Preece, dissociated herself from him and left the colony. Donald McCormick refers to her departure:

    ‘It was a slow process, brought about principally through a disintegration of his character.[7]

    peace (hope you will post)

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  15. Baghairto read my following points carefully and tell me where I am wrong?

    1) Piggot made claim to be God so this was the matter between Piggot and God.
    2) This prophecy was the warning of God not the warning of MGA
    3) Repentance should be only to God not to MGA
    4) Therefor Piggot repentance means he was afraid of God
    5) God was alive in MGA lifetime and after his death

    BAYGHARTO if he really repented he should not repeat his claim after MGA death. But you say Piggot was only silent because your prophet was alive and he was afraid of your prophet in other words he was not afraid of God. You can say like that because you are all ‘Nafsiyati Mareez’. Its very simple this cant be the warning of Allah but you dont want to open your eyes you like to create complications it is like a game for you which you like to play because you are not normal people you are all ‘Nafsiyati Mareez’.

    TD

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    1. TD You have simply lost the plot!!!

      1- The Promised Messiah (as) was Allah (swt)Messiah therefore he out of deep love of a human being claiming to GOD! warned Pigot to refrain from such absurd claims. The Promised Messiah (as) was defending the Unity of Allah (swt) and he Loved Allah (swt) so Much that he prayed to Almighty Allah (swt) about Pigot and then he was informed to Warn!!! Pigot that he did not repent from his Claims he would be Punished.

      2- Indeed it was a WARNING FROM GOD! but Allah (swt) sent his warning through the Promised Messiah (as).

      3- I again suggest you read everything that has been stated! no where has the Promised Messiah (as) he had to repent to the Promised Messiah (as) he was only told Repent!!!! and obviously to repent to Allah (swt).

      4- and yes indeed he must have been afraid of Allah (swt) but the God of Islam who sent his warning through the Promised Messiah (as) thus he would not dare make such a claim again during the life time of the Promised Messiah (as) but if you see exactly what happened the moment he claimed again to be God after the demise of the Promised Messiah (as) he was totally humiliated by Allah (swt).

      5 - ?

      your last comments are are just attempt to cover up your lack of evidence and weak argument, at not point have I or another Ahmadi Muslim said that he was only afraid of the Promised Messiah (as) and not God!!! your abuse of " Nafsiyati Mareez" just shows you lack of intellect on the subject!!!!. We are indeed normal people it is people like you who lie about us and make stories about us. rather you abuse and lies is not the behavior of a NORMAL PERSON!!! the very accusation on us you are displaying!!!.

      lastly I don't want to enter into abusive debate. I am thankful to Cult.Girl for allowing the posts.

      peace

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    2. @God of Islam who sent his warning through the Promised Messiah (as) thus he would not dare make such a claim again during the life time of the Promised Messiah (as)

      The problem is you have a very small brain so this time I will try to teach you in your language.
      Suppose your Qaid asks you to give chanda and you refuse him because you want give zakat first. Your Qaid tell this to your Khalifa and Khalifa warned you through your Qaid ‘REPENT’ otherwise he will expel you. You ‘REPENT’ and give chanda. After some years your Qaid dies now ask yourself will you stop giving chanda ofcourse not because you understand your Khalifa is alive and he actually warned you.

      Similarly if Piggot repentance was genuine then MGA lives or dies it does not matter the point is repentance should be only to God and God is for forever. For a normal person it is nonsense Piggot was silent because MGA was alive but you are not normal you are a ‘Nafsiyati Mareez’ thats why this make sense to you.

      TD

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    3. As for my abusing is concern I will suggest you read first your MGA ‘GALIYAN’
      http://www.khatm-e-nubuwwat.org/ahmadies/Galian/P/1.htm
      http://www.khatm-e-nubuwwat.org/ahmadies/Galian/P/2.htm
      http://www.khatm-e-nubuwwat.org/ahmadies/Galian/P/3.htm
      http://www.khatm-e-nubuwwat.org/ahmadies/Galian/P/4.htm
      http://www.khatm-e-nubuwwat.org/ahmadies/Galian/P/5.htm
      http://www.khatm-e-nubuwwat.org/ahmadies/Galian/P/6.htm
      http://www.khatm-e-nubuwwat.org/ahmadies/Galian/P/7.htm
      http://www.khatm-e-nubuwwat.org/ahmadies/Galian/P/8.htm
      http://www.khatm-e-nubuwwat.org/ahmadies/Galian/P/9.htm
      http://www.khatm-e-nubuwwat.org/ahmadies/Galian/P/10.htm
      http://www.khatm-e-nubuwwat.org/ahmadies/Galian/P/11.htm
      http://www.khatm-e-nubuwwat.org/ahmadies/Galian/P/12.htm

      When you read your prophet abusing I am sure it would be normal for you. This is another proof you are a ‘Nafsiyati Mareez’ when your prophet abuse its normal for you but when an ordinary person abuse it is not acceptable for you. Trust me you are not normal you are a ‘Nafsiyati Mareez’

      TD

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    4. If you still think you are not a ‘Nafsiyati Mareez’ then read my following points and comments.

      1) Piggot made claim to be God
      2) God warned him repent otherwise he will die soon even in the lifetime of MGA
      4) Obviously God was aware that MGA will die in 1908 so Piggot had maximum 6 years
      5) Therefor ‘SOON’ is not more than 6 years
      6) Piggot repented and saved his life
      7) After death of MGA he claimed again and he died in 1927
      8) God was going to kill him in 6 years when he claimed first time
      9) Nauzbillah second time God forget that he has warned Piggot he will die soon

      My point is God has warned Piggot if he does not repent he will die soon so if this was the warning of God why he died after 19 years he should die instantly. But you are a ‘Nafsiyati Mareez’ of course you can fool yourself but for a normal person this is very clear this was not the warning of my great almighty ALLAH.

      TD

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  16. Abu Musa you have made a desperate attempt to refute the evidence that has been clearly demonstrated.

    Your comment " And another threat (and from what I can ascertain, his last) in 1907"

    Indeed your assertion is wrong! Please show us where in the books of the Promised Messiah (as) where he again threatened Pigot in 1907,

    Also the reason Pigot was defrocked and humiliated was of his immoral behaviour of having sexual relationships with many women.

    With regards to your unintelligent remarks that this is the biggest blow to Ahmadiyyat WRONG AGAIN!!!!this proof of his truthfulness!!!

    Please try to read!!! The comments that have been made!!!! now PLEASE ABU MUSA PROVIDE THE PROOF THAT THE PROMISED MESSIAH (AS) TRAEATENED PIGOT IN 1907 FROM HIS WRTINGS!!!
    Peace

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  17. Firstly – Mirza Gullam had Muhammad Sadiq write letters for him in the English medium because Mirza’s English (as has been documented) was grammatically full of errors. Therefore, having someone write for means it doesn’t come from your books.
    An added side point must also be: Why is someone who believes he gets revelation in different languages including English having others write letters for him?

    Secondly – There was a letter sent in 1902 and then there was another in 1903. This is established Mirza’s son.
    There was definitely another article published after this time that appeared in 1907 in some newspapers – and this has to have been another letter because it is under a different article and article title. So even if the writing was slightly earlier in time (which I doubt because the other two were published at the time they were sent), we have three separate threats – all definitely at different times.
    Again, was one not enough? And if Pigott repented after Mirza made the claim that he would die if he didn’t (through Godly revelation), then why send more then one letter – surly the first would have made him stop?

    Thirdly – Pigott according to you repented in the time of Mirza Gullam. Where is this proof? A man who claims to be God and then has various letters sent to him by Mirza needs to really come out and say: “I retract my statement” otherwise, you cannot say he repented. According to his later actions (i.e. claiming to be God), we must conclude l that no repentance took place at all.

    Fourthly – Mirza Gullam said: “the death of Mr. Pigott within my life-time shall be another sign of my truth”
    What happened to this sign?

    Fifthly - Mirza Gullam also said that he would never repent, nor would he believe in God – so in Ahmadiyya theology - does that actually mean that he repented during the lifetime of Mirza Gullam and then returned back to Godly claims later? But since it took many letters/threats of Mirza – spanning years, which letter made him repent – and at what time?

    Conclusion – The defensive work of the Ahmadiyya on this is all too complicated and too many bits of the puzzle do not fit. Logically they don’t piece together & therefore we can only conclude that these ‘prophecies’ are indeed false, proving that Mirza Gullam was not a prophet – or even close to that.

    Finally – please try not to be insulting in your posts – your arguments/debates should transcend that

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    1. First mistake your comments " Firstly – Mirza Gullam had Muhammad Sadiq write letters for him in the English medium because Mirza’s English (as has been documented) was grammatically full of errors. Therefore, having someone write for means it doesn’t come from your books.

      The Promised Messiah (as) could not speak English or write English.

      2nd Mistake all he statement about John Pigot are written in his books.

      3rd " There was definitely another article published after this time that appeared in 1907 in some newspapers" PRODUCE IT!!!!!

      4TH with regards to these comments

      " Pigott according to you repented in the time of Mirza Gullam. Where is this proof? A man who claims to be God and then has various letters sent to him by Mirza needs to really come out and say: “I retract my statement” otherwise, you cannot say he repented. According to his later actions (i.e. claiming to be God), we must conclude l that no repentance took place at all.

      this has been explained in all Posts above by me! just read them!!!

      5th just with an open heart

      " However, it is important not to ignore the allegation and look in to what was behind it. The foundation for this allegation rests on the fact that the Promised Messiah(as) passed away in 1908, while Pigott died in 1927. The announcement that the Promised Messiah(as) sent to Pigott and Western newspapers clearly stated that if Pigott did not abstain from his claim to godship, he would be destroyed instantly, However, it is important not to ignore the allegation and look in to what was behind it. The foundation for this allegation rests on the fact that the Promised Messiah(as) passed away in 1908, while Pigott died in 1927. The announcement that the Promised Messiah(as) sent to Pigott and Western newspapers clearly stated that if Pigott did not abstain from his claim to godship, he would be destroyed instantly, and possibly during the lifetime of the Promised Messiah(as) . The actual words of the English text are as follows:

      ‘I therefore warn him through this notice that if he does not repent of this irreverent claim, he shall be soon annihilated.’
      ) . The actual words of the English text are as follows:

      ‘I therefore warn him through this notice that if he does not repent of this irreverent claim, he shall be soon annihilated.’

      as you can see again your MISTAKE! THE PROMISED MESSIAH (AS) SAID " However, it is important not to ignore the clearly stated that if Pigott did not abstain from his claim to godship, he would be destroyed instantly, and possibly during the lifetime of the Promised Messiah(as) . The actual words of the English text are as follows:

      " HE WOULD BE DESTROYED INSTANTLY, AND POSSIBLY DURING THE LIFETIME OF THE PROMISED MESSIAH(AS)

      Abu Musa wrong again.

      your conclusion is indeed pitiful pleas where have I abuse or insulted!!!

      Peace ( Ahmad) if you are referring to the comment of ( New Ahmadi Convert from sunni Islam) that is not me. And i can only apologize on his behalf,

      ps I will sign as my middle name ( Ahmad) so your not confused I don't need to abuse

      peace Ahmad

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    2. nice reply

      Delete
    3. The Promised Messiah (as) could not speak English or write English.

      Then please explain these:

      -"God is coming by His army. He is with you to kill enemy."
      English online Tadhkhirah PDF page.101 Book page.81

      -"Though all men should be angry but God is with you. He shall help you. Words of God not can exchange."
      English online Tadhkhirah PDF page.164 Book page.144

      -"We can what We will do"
      English online Tadhkhirah PDF page.99 Book page.79

      I will excuse the grammatical errors for the moment, but please tell me how he 'didn’t speak nor write English'

      If you then say to me that they were revelation, then please explain how Allah (swt) made grammatical mistakes, or if Allah (swt) didn’t make them, then Jibrael (as) was the one who messed it up, since Mirza couldn’t have?

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    4. Firstly – you agree that he didn’t write these letters, rather it was Muhammad Sadiq?
      Then you tell me that all his sayings are in his books. Could you please explain this?

      Secondly - As for the third article (1907) – it is actually in the main text above (in the article) with a ref. from the newspaper it was taken from. Like I said – even if it wasn’t written in 1907 – it definitely was the third sent – which goes back to the original question, why does Mirza Gullam need to threaten someone three times?

      Thirdly – you didn’t show me how he repented. Someone moving to another area and carrying on his claims doesn’t show anything. There needs to be actual evidence that he repented. Like I said earlier – the fact that he still claimed to be God afterwards shoes to me that nothing changed for him.

      Finally – could you please explain this (again): “the death of Mr. Pigott within my life-time shall be another sign of my truth”

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  18. I do want to add one final point to this Insha'Allah.

    From what I have come across in the seera – Allah (swt) through the Qur’an and the prophet (saw) through the hadith have only really dammed a few people to the hellfire

    -One of them is Abu Lahab – and there is a short Surah in the Quran that deals with him and his wife.
    -Another is Walid Ibn Mugera (the father of Khalid ibn Walid (ra))

    There are others, but I will just talk about these two:

    A major proof that was for the Quraish about the truth of the Qur’an was that - after that Surah was revealed about Abu Lahab – he had years to convert to Islam – but he didn’t - and he would never have been able to because Allah (swt) had established before He (swt) even created the Heavens and Earth that he was doomed to the fire.

    The other example is Walid ibn Mugeera who came to the prophet (saw) and had some dust in his hands and said to the prophet (saw) – are we to be raised up after we reach this state (i.e. after death and our bones decay) – and the prophet (saw) said to him, you will be raised and then Allah (swt) will throw you into the fire. Again, Walid never became Muslim – nor did he repent at any time, nor did he revert back to kufr. He was upon disbelief from day one and remained that way until his death.

    Now compare this to the prophecy of Mirza Gullam. There was no iffs/buts/errings in the prophet (saw)’s statements – as soon as they came out of his mouth, end of.
    No ‘repentance’ for a short time, and then later on ghastly claims.

    I cannot see how you can say that Mirza is a prophet. Simply compare his statements with that of the prophet (saw). Not just in how he prophesised future events, but in his whole manner of hadith.
    We can clearly see that Mirza’s statements have been proven incorrect by their apparent meanings. And when the Ahmadiyya go to defend it (as they have to) their defences go around 20 blocks before even coming close to making some far reached sense.
    To any logical onlooker – the answer is clear. However, guidance is in the hands of Allah (swt) and we ask him to keep us all on the straight path

    Allah (swt) knows best

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    1. Abu Musa

      your comments speak for themselves

      " We can clearly see that Mirza’s statements have been proven incorrect by their apparent meanings. And when the Ahmadiyya go to defend it (as they have to) their defences go around 20 blocks before even coming close to making some far reached sense.
      To any logical onlooker – the answer is clear. However, guidance is in the hands of Allah (swt) and we ask him to keep us all on the straight path.

      you missed boat again all that has been explained is logical and rational responses, you current comments show me that you actually have no argument. we have put sound comments and responses demonstrating the truth of the Promised Messiah (as).

      peace

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  19. @Mr. Peace
    IT IS RIDICULOUS TO COMPARE YOUR AND ABU MUSA REPLY.

    His post was logical and very organized he post like a normal and sensible person but your behavior is abnormal I can clearly see you are fooling yourself.

    I know you are satisfied that you have replied Abu Musa in a very well way but this is not the reality, the reality is totally opposite you did not reply Abu Musa like a normal person you were talking like a mentally ill person. For a normal person Piggot case is very simple but you have some psychological problems you can fool and satisfy yourself very easily you can see whatever you want because you are a ‘Nafsiyati Mareez’. You dont reply to satisfy others you actually fool yourself this is a ‘SEAL ON YOUR HEART’

    TD

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  20. @Mr. Peace
    You have atleast one hundred Piggot like disputed issues everything is controversial. What kind of religion you have? If I do nothing in my whole life and only research on your religion I cant cover all disputed issues and you call this religion, pathetic.

    You can afford such religion because you are a ‘Nafsiyati Mareez’ but a common or normal person cant. You dont live in a real world you fool yourself, you have your own logics otherwise only common sense is enough to know what the reality is.

    I have proved many times that basically you are all ‘Nafsiyati Mareez’ thats the root cause of your abnormal behavior. You think you love everyone but reality is totally opposite actually you hate everyone. The worst thing is that you dont know what you actually do and you proudly say love for all hatred for none. Baygharto you are not normal people you are all 'Nafsiyati Mareez' this is the reality.

    TD

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  21. Good comment, but please transalte me Sura Kosar. When Kofaar-e-Makah said that Mohammad (pbuh)does not have a son and their will be no male hier for him, Qura'an said? it says" no doubt the enemies of Mohammad will remain with out a hier. Was it true? who had male hiers and who did not?

    Please read your history first and then attack on any other religion of the world.
    Tell me why Juesh people did not believe on jesus christ? because the prophesies did not fullfil as the juze wanted like Muslims of our era now.

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  22. Mirza Ghulam what's his name died on a toilet.

    How is one a Prophet if his death is on a toilet?

    How is one a Prophet when his followers twist words?

    This Ahmadiyya sect is a load of bullshit!!! It needs wiping off the face of Earth!!! You're a bunch of jokers!

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