Sunday, 23 October 2011

Jamaat Ahmadiyya: A Fabricated Hadith, A Challenge and An Epic Failure!!

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Salaams!

Last week, I set Rafiq Hayat, the National President of the Ahmadiyya Community of the UK, a basic challenge that was near impossible for him to fail, if of course his prophet was honest! I was offering the guy a way out of all of this and the condition was nothing out of the ordinary! It is not like I was asking him to remove one of his corrupt colleagues like Nasir Khan or Shabir Bhatti now, was I? I thought that would be most unreasonable of me, considering how much Rafiq Hayat, ‘Ameer’ of the United Kingdom relies on them to ensure he himself stays in office! And we need him in office still because the longer he stays, the more controversial the Jamaat becomes and the more controversial it gets, more people wake up to this fraud that is ‘Ahmadiyya- the ‘true’ Islam’.  So we don’t want any of them standing down, being sacked or resigning just yet, especially seeing as much of my information will be of no use then too! 

I set him this challenge, so that he could prove himself as ‘Ameer’ of the United Kingdom and simultaneously prove he genuinely cared about his Jamaat. In return, I promised I would close this blog down, provided someone, anyone, could bring forth the proof. It was so simple, so so so simple and beyond funny that Rafiq Hayat and his fellow Ahmadis managed to miserably failed the task! I know you are too busy chasing that paper Raf, like a good 'Muslim' man, but couldn't one of your 'engaged and educated' Ahmadi loyalists have sent me something through? What about all these Khuddam boys Fahim Anwer has tried to school on defending the Jamaat recently, where were they? I guess when they can't prove their prophet, best thing to do is to stay quiet eh? Rather believe in the lies, then face up to the possibilty you were born into a CULT? I know guys, I know; when I realised Ahmadiyya was a fraud- it hit me for 6 and I was 'WTF'ing for nearly a year, not knowing what to do with myself! 

Anyways Mirza Ghulam Qadiani; the Prophet, Messiah, Mahdi, Krishna, Buddha and various other personalities he claimed to be, claimed that:
"In many Saheeh Ahadith it is written that the Promised Messiah will arrive at the beginning of a century, and he will be the Reformer of the fourteenth century."
(Ruhani Khazain, Volume 21, page 359; lines 11-12)

I simply requested someone or somebody from the Ahmadiyya Community to get at me with just ONE Sahih Hadith in which this is mentioned, and they had a whole week to do this in too! I wasn’t even being unreasonable because after all, to ask for one Hadith when Mirza Ghulam Qadiani has claimed there to be many, is very reasonable I say!

Mirza Ghulam Qadiani states very clearly that in many Sahih (Authentic) Ahadith (Plural) it is written that the Promised Messiah will arrive at the beginning of a century, and he will be the Reformer of the 14th Century! There is no interpreting it, no second guessing it, no pondering over it and certainly no need to over analyse the quote- it is what it is! 

For those Ahmadis who are not quite sure of what a Hadith is, let me briefly explain: Hadith is the collection of the Prophet Muhammad’s (SAAWS) statements and actions, coupled with the statements and actions of his companions! Is that clear enough for you? It is literally that simple! Would you also like to know what is meant by Sahih Hadith? I can also explain that for you very briefly, in slow-motion-cut-up-in-little-pieces of English. Sahih is Arabic for authentic or genuine and is the highest level of authenticity given to Ahadith. There are, according to Sunni/Orthodox Muslims, 6 major Hadith Collections and they are: Sahih Bukhari,  Sahih Muslim, Sunan al-Sughra, Sunan Abu Dawood, Jami al-Tirmidhi and Sunan ibn Majah. Of course, not a single one of these collections contained any such hadith, this was established many years ago, but few Ahmadis know about this bogus Hadith and claim of Mirza Ghulam Qadiani.

Ahmadis have since emailed in arguing that we cannot be sure what he, their Prophet Mirza Ghulam Qadiani, meant by ‘Sahih’ as not everyone agrees on what is ‘Sahih’ hadith and what is ‘da’eef’ (weak). Wait my Muslim friends, before we raise our eyebrows and smirk as we see the Ahmadis really pushing their luck, desperately trying to prove their Prophet did not make it up and indeed there is Ahadith that states this, let’s give the Ahmadis some leeway, the poor things! After all, they are technically right, not everyone necessarily agrees on what is  classed ‘sahih’ and ‘da’eef’ ahadith anyways..right?!

Also, my Muslim friends, we have to remember that the entire Ahmadiyya ‘religion’ is based on ‘possibilities’ and ‘metaphors’ and ‘interpretations’, so maybe, just maybe, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani was, according to his interpreting followers, referring to other Ahadith as ‘Sahih’ and not the formally recognized ones. (We know this is BS but OK..we have to play fair with the Ahmadis..let’s not come down too hard on them..they are brainwashed after all!). So OK, maybe Mirz Ghulam Qadiani meant another set of Ahadith, that he considered ‘Sahih’ and all those who have since set out to find these mysterious Ahadith, were probably looking in the wrong place because silly them, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was referring to some other ‘Sahih ahadith’. If only he had been clear and like a good boy, provided footnotes and references! Then again, when you wantonly plagiariseand outright lie, I guess footnotes and references is something you would actually want to avoid, right? That explains why he failed to reference these so called 'Ahadith'.

Anyways come on guys, let’s give the so called prophet/mahdi/messih /Krishna/Buddha of the Muslim world a chance, and consider that maybe, just maybe, there are even da'eef ahadith out there that state what he claims....we are even willing to settle for that too! SO WHERE THE HELL ARE THEY? Not a single Ahmadi was able to produce even a da’eef hadith, let alone anything close to ‘sahih’!

I have been bombarded by emails from Ahmadis who, bless them, have at least tried to ‘challenge the challenge’ but not a single Ahmadi produced  a single hadith and instead, I was presented with unrelated Ayahs of the Quran! Do Ahmadis not understand the difference between Ayah and Hadith? If Mirza Ghulam said 'ahadith' why are you all coming at me with Ayahs? I have had Ahmadis email in arguing that the Quran supersedes Ahadith and if an Ayah is presented then that should suffice. The funniest thing is, all the Ayahs that were being sent to me were of absolutely no relevance either! They may as well have quoted something from the Baghavad Gita, that is how irrelevant they were! Its like they deliberately set out to make themselves and their founder look stupid or something?! Its not about what YOU think or what I think now, is it?

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad clearly says that this is mentioned in many AHADITH, so where are they, and how many times do you need to be told? If he had said 'Ayah' then fair enough, but he didn't say that did he! He said Ahadith and if he says its in Ahadith, then care to explain why no one, not a single one you of, anywhere in the Ahmadi Jamaat, was able to find even just the one! I was even willing to let the ‘sahih’ issue slide and make it easy for you, and could even have settled for a da’eef (weak) hadith but you Ahmadis even failed there too! If YOUR Prophet has alleged that such and such is stated in Sahih Ahadith, then I am sticking with that because he was the one who said it after all! How dare you Ahmadis try and bury what he said as nothing, instead trying to patronise me by saying ‘ayah over hadith’ when it was YOUR PROPHET who said it was in Ahadith in the first place! Have you no shame? He was your Prophet! How could you brush off what he said, and start making assumptions like that?? I know Ahmadis have shamelessly done the same with the beloved Mohammad SAAWs, and we expect nothing less but really, to do the same to Mirza Ghulam Qadiani? The guy you have accepted and have been shunned by the entire Ummah for? I mean, seriously? 

So you all failed. Each and every single one of you. No one came at me with a single hadith and that is because not a single one exists! Mirza Ghulam Qadiani shamlessly lied and shamelessly attempted to attribute something to the Prophet SAAWs that was not true! Astaghfirullah! No such hadith exists, be it Sahih or Da’eef, but he was so brazen about it and led his followers to believe there was plenty of Sahih ahadith, in an attempt to back up his claims! There isn’t even a hadith to try and interpret, because no such thing comes even close to what he has claimed. So for all you Ahmadis who have accused me of being 'quick to judge' and 'quick to dismiss', at least give me a hadith to 'judge and dismiss' for the love of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad!! And I learnt something new this week, thanks to some helpful brothers, and I quote: 
When Mirza says that Sahih Ahadith say ".. he will arrive at the beginning of a century, and he will be the Reformer of the fourteenth century." In the other words he is alleging the Prophet (SAW) has said this i.e. the 14th century. This is not possible because the Islamic calendar was decided and put in to motion after the blessed Prophet (SAW) left this world by Hazrat Umar (RA) so how could the Prophet (SAW) have specifically stated 14th century? It was under the blessed caliphate of Hazrat Umar (RA) that the Hijri calendar was agreed upon, which then defined when the Islamic century started and which Islamic century we were in and this is after the Prophet (SAW) left this world.

So what do you Ahmadis have to say about that? The Islamic Calendar wasn't even around in the lifetime of Rasoolullah SAAWs, yet he is meant to have said that a reformer/promised messiah was going to show up in the 14th century, according to the Islamic Calendar? Unless of course you can prove the Prophet SAAWs knew an Islamic Calendar would come into effect? Can you prove that? No, thought not! Still believe Mirza Ghulam Qadiani was telling the truth? Still believe this guy did not lie, in the name of Mohammad SAAWs, the best of all creations? Remember, Allah despises those who disrespect His Messenger and Mirza Ghulam Qadiani disrespected him, by alleging he said these things!

It is crystal clear that Mirza Ghulam Qadiani lied! He told a huge lie, in order for his foolish punjabi followers who had probably never read a hadith in their life, to believe this predicted/prophecised by the Prophet SAAWS and as no other infidel claimed 'mujahid-hood' and 'messiah-hood' at the time, it must apply to him. It’s as simple as that! Use-your-God-given-logic-Ahmadis! 

Let me break it down for you again:

1. Mirza claimed that in Sahih (authentic) Hadith it is said that there would come a reformer/promised messiah in the 14th century (hijri), making that 19th century (gregorian). It was the 19th Century at the time of his blasphemous claims.
2. No Hadith exists. He claimed there were many authentic ahadith which supported this, but guess what? There ain’t even a weak one that supports it.
3. Mirza lied.
4. Mirza lied and attributed these lies to the Prophet SAAWs.
5. Not a single Ahmadi was able to produce a Sahih Hadith, nor a Da’eef one- despite Mirza claiming there were many.

Here is what Mirza said about lies and those who lie:
"Those who are the sons of prostitutes and are the products of adultery - even they feel ashamed when they lie". (Shahna Haq p.60, Roohani khazain,vol.2, p386).
 "To lie is like eating shit" .(Haiqat-ul-wahi page 206, Roohani khazain vol. 22, p. 215)
"If someone is proven a liar; he also becomes unreliable in other affairs." (Roohani Khazain, Volume 23, Page 231; Chashma-e-Mua'arfat, Page 222)

Mirza managed to fail the very standards that he set for others- SubhanAllah!

He claims sons of prostitutes and those born as a result of illegal relationships would even feel some shame lying, so what about him? It is apparent he has lied, so is it fair to say he metaphorically ate shit too? And as he is a proven liar (either that or you Ahmadis failed the poor bloke so miserably by failing to produce these Ahadith), can we safely assume he is also unreliable in all his other affairs, including him laying claim to Prophethood, being Krishna etc?

So, Rafi boy, where does that leave me and you hey? You, my friend, know full well this religion is a fraud. You know and are well aware of the corruption within the organisation and you know Mas is no rightly guided one. You know this. No doubt about it. You must know that your so called Prophet/Messih/Mahdi is a liar, a fraud and an enemy of Allah. I asked you for one thing, and it shouldn’t have been difficult, if it was truthful, but it wasn’t truthful now was it? It was impossible for you really wasn’t it, yet you still are part of something that is based on lies, forgery and deceit in the name of Allah and Islam! Do you not worry about the state of your children in the next life? And you are involved in this all at such a high level! Shame on you! You might not pay for anything in this life, you might not pay for anything in this life... 

I think its safe to assume, that my blog will NOT be closing down, and that you failed to prove your prophet! Thanks a bunch....

See the blog changes? Dark and Shady? It represents the turn around on this blog. Say No More! Lets play a game of IT. I am the lead and you are IT! 

All in good time. Let's not run before we can walk. You are all good...for now! 

Tune of the Day:
Overnight Celebrity

108 comments:

  1. findings firstly you have no Islamic theological knowledge have you studied the Uloom of Ahadith, do you know what you are talking about!!! there many Ahadith in the support of the Promised Messiah (as) and they are Sahih let ask you a question if I show you Ahadith will you repent and submit to true Islam?

    lastly eventhough I feel your time is up, I truly believe you are about to be punished and humiliated,

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  2. great work ya ukhti

    No mercy for the merciless cult who robbed thousands of their faith and now robs them of money and honor as well ...

    continue with the jihad

    Allah be with you!

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  3. JazakAllah Brother Akbar- Ahmadiyya Awareness Team Rocks!

    OI don't come here insulting me! Same old record, broken,smashed and broken! BRING ME THE HADITH and I will repent inshallah! BRING ME THE HADITH! Where is it?? Where is it?? Where is it?? You don't need to be an expert in theology to know what a hadith is and what a fraud MGA is! A dyslexic 2 year old can even figure that one out!

    Don't waste my time or yours by lying and making up crap- you do know what your prophet said about lies right? You wanna eat shit? Well then...

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  4. @anonymous

    Findings has already said that she will close down this blog and repent. Just show us the hadith already!

    Your thinly veiled threats are disgusting.

    @Findings
    Great work sister, may Allah (SWT) bless you and may Allah (SWT) guide those blind Ahmadis back to Islam.

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  5. And stop following in your prophets footsteps giving out fake prophecies of doom. Bring me the hadith. I want it now. You've had a whole week to get me it and now all of a sudden it exists? Yeah... Pigs fly too!

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  6. Firstly I would like to say you are one seriously super edgy chica! I really love the new look blog! Its really edgy and deep, much like you :) you seem like a really cool girl who is just trying to do what she thinks is best! I admire you.

    Secondly: you nailed them! You are spot on! Where are the alleged Hadith and why are no scholars aware of this? Ahmedis are the only ones that seem to know anything about his supposed appearance in the C14th but they can't prove where they got this nonsense from! If the hadith exists then where is it? And if it doesn't exist he lied! And he said 'saheeh' which demonstrates he was referring to one of 6 major classifications and perhaps even just the 2 Saheeh Ahadith of Bukhari and Muslim. You should not have made any exceptions because saheeh means saheeh. They can run as many rings around the truth as possible but lies never outrun the truth!

    You don't need to be a theologian to figure this one out!

    You deserve great blessings. You are a big fish in a small pond! I am a big fan of yours and I wish you the best of luck! I found your blog when I was researching on 'Fiqh' and I am really enjoying the drama here!

    That guy in the middle pic looks evil. Lanaati even.

    XXX

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  7. Findings you are on a roll! Mash'Allah! If only all Ahmadies had your logic! They just need some sense knocking into them and they will start to return to Islam! You are a smashing those Halloween pumpkins up ruthlessly! You are certainly something! May Allah (swt) find you a way out for God knows you really deserve it!

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  8. Qadiyanis eat metaphorical cow dung everyday!! Funny about metaphorical shit! Mirza you have made a right cock up and left your priceless pakistani pundits to pick up the pieces! Leave this headache behind already!

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  9. Secondhand Islam23 October 2011 at 23:33

    Masha'allah excellent post, another shameful defeat for the 'Scammadiyya' cult :)

    Without doubt Rafiq Hayat knows that mirza was a liar, Masroor knows his great grandfather was a liar but these people love the duniya and they have an easy income.

    The difference between Muslims and Qadianis is that we jump at the defence of our Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alahi Wassallam and Qadianis lock themselves away when asked about Mirza!

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  10. Ahmadis should ask themselves where is the Hadith, why Imam Rashad Saab and the rah-huda team have not given an answer along with their so called Islamic scholers who know Islam better than the Muslims. These people have ruined many lives and believes and broke families. Shame on you!!!

    Please Ahmadis do your research and do dua plenty of dua and you will find that you are indeed in a cult and following falsehood!

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  11. Dear Findings look! I have read from the quote of the Promised Messiah (as)and he gave a generalized statement that there are many Shahih Ahadith in his support! now Sahih does mean Bukhari or Muslim there many Sahih Ahadith in other works. So let me ask you a question do you accept the Hadith that says in every century a reformer will come? if so where is the reformer of 13th century

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  12. Secondhand Islam24 October 2011 at 00:41

    Sorry just to add, in Ruhani Khazain V.17 p.47; Araba'een no.3 p.65 footnote,he has written "Telling a lie is no lesser than being an apostate"

    As Mirza Qadiani has been caught redhanded, it means according to his words he is a Murtad, so if the prophet of Qadianis is a Murtad then what are they?

    Ghor Seh Socho.

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  13. In response to the first "Anonymous"

    Second, the challenge was to show this narration. Your entire religious team, who monitor this blog, were unable to. The undeniable fact is that Mirza was just making stuff up, just like verses of the Qur'an that he invented.

    The verse he quoted is a distortion of an early ayah from Surah al-Israa (Bani Israel). Does your Profit Prophet at least know the Qur'an?

    There are many ahadith in support of the Promised Messiah. They also eliminate false claimants.

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  14. This is a joke, the Prophet (SAW) said that he doesn't know WHEN the Hour will occur so don't ask him ... another place he says with regards to when the Hour will occur the knowledge of the person asking the question is the same as the one who the quesiton is being posed to

    So in reality the only hadith on this topic are about those where Nabi (SAW) says only Allah knows WHEN

    Mirzas whole claim is AGAINST THE QUR'AN

    31:34 (Asad) Verily, with God alone rests the knowledge of when the Last Hour will come: and He [it is who] sends down rain; and He [alone] knows what is in the wombs: [31] whereas no one knows what he will reap tomorrow, and no one knows in what land he will die, Verily. God [alone] is all-knowing, all-aware.

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  15. @ Anonymous

    //I have read from the quote of the Promised Messiah (as)and he gave a generalized statement that there are many Shahih Ahadith in his support!//

    Wow! generalized statement? As if he considered him like any mujaddid of the past centuries whoever they may be? Before we speak if he was even worthy to be recognized as a mujaddid .. let me ask you if you really consider him like ANY mujaddid of the past centuries?

    //now Sahih does mean Bukhari or Muslim there many Sahih Ahadith in other works.//

    so innocent! Did anyone ever ask you to bring a hadith from Bukhari or Muslim alone? challenge was not restricted to these collections.

    //So let me ask you a question do you accept the Hadith that says in every century a reformer will come? if so where is the reformer of 13th century//

    That hadith is indeed authentic. but;

    1- the reformers were certainly there in EVERY century ...
    none of them was a prophet or anyone "denying" whom one would become a non-believer or even a sinner ...
    infact the question of their denial was never raised even ...
    none of them made a separate community using the name of Islam ..
    if e.g. Ibn Hajr and al-Suyuti were mujaddids do you find Islam Hajriyya or Islam Suyutiyya? Mirza was always for something "big" and he just "used" islam to his purpose.

    2- Your own people agree there can be multiple mujaddids in a century .. in 'Asl Musaffa more than 80 have been named for past centuries and possibility of even more has been accepted .. why was there only "ONE" in his time even if we lose senses to agree with you that he was a mujaddid?? why there could be many in the past centuries and just one in his time? if there were others beside him, who were they?

    3- what is the EVIDENCE for peculiarities you attach with him?

    4- Interesting! you speak of 13th century while he cried about the 14th ..

    this cult cannot be defended. why you kill yourself doing this? leave it and come back home!

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  16. this isn't even necessarily about theology- its about trying to trace a mysterious hadith! everyone is welcome, we don't discriminate here! A hindu is even welcome to help us find this hadith! No biggy! Don't know why Qadianis are emailing me in crying that I am not qualified to talk about religion! Its not! Its about a missing hadith!

    first person to come back with the hadith gets a gold star!

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  17. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:eQnW-fT9VnIJ:www.alislam.org/library/links/00000087.html+hadith+reformer+in+14th+century+-+1000+years&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-a

    namely:
    "When one thousand and two hundred and forty years will pass, God will raise Mahdi."

    "The best century is the one in which I live, then the next century, then the century after that. Then there will spread falsehood at the hands of people who will take pride in their wealth and riches and will grow fat on the earnings of others."

    1. (Tirmidhi & Bukhari, Kitab Al-Shahadat)
    As foretold in this tradition of the Holy Prophet, Islam began to decline after the first three centuries of uninterrupted conquests and growing prosperity, till it suffered a very serious check in about 271 A.H. when its graded decline and decay continued till it reached its nadir in the next one thousand years that the reference has been made in the Quranic verse:
    "Then shall it go up to Him in a day the duration of which is a thousand years." (32:6).


    Above are the typical, recycled ahmadi 'proofs' I am sent in!

    They really are 'special' aren't they! Lol!

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  18. Kutti di maut maren gi tu, findings di bachiye

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  19. To all please just answer the question who were the reformers of 13,14th century as Akbar said

    "That hadith is indeed authentic. but;

    1- the reformers were certainly there in EVERY century . so who were they!!!! and my question was to findings even though her answer was not really sufficient and I did not ask about Nawbuwat. so please give the names of the reformer of 13th and 14th

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  20. do not try to become a "NISHAAN".

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  21. Ah findings your not allowing my comments well all my Ahmadi Muslim brothers and sisters are enjoying you lack of response to my questions. where is the reformer of both 13th and 14th century !!!!

    2nd request

    peace

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  22. There is only authentic Hadith in which Qadiani Mirza is "mentioned";


    "...Verily by God, the Last Hour will not come until 30 liars of prophecy will appear and the final one will be the One-eyed False Messiah."

    (Narrated by Imam Ahmad as a sound Hadeeth).

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  23. Do your worst Findings, Farhan, Shahid etc. Ahmadiyyat the true islam will be around long after you have been humiliated by Allah the almighty. Feel sorry for all of you when Allah calls you to account.

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  24. I have some words I would like to say to you Ya Ukhti and I hope you are not embarrassed by them! You deserve some commendation! Hands down you are one of the greatest assets to the Ummah fighting this particular fitna in present day! I say this with confidence for 2 reasons:

    - you are REAL. Ahmadis can't understand that and what you are doing is alien to them. This isn't a mullah with a beard but a real girl with real words who is still living amongst them! They can't grasp that even without discussing Islam and their twisted interpretation of it, you can still hurt their core beliefs using common sense! Even an Atheist would be able to conclude MGAQ was a liar. He constantly contradicted himself. You don't even need to be armed with Qu'ran or Ahadeeth to be able to come to this conclusion!

    -You have mastered the 'dummies guide to fraud of ahmadiyya'. This is a strategy you have perfected! They are idiots and you have acknowledged this. 'Idiots Guide to Reality'.


    Sis you are 'killing it'. Mash'Allah. It makes me proud to see a young, unassuming woman take on this challenge! You are an inspiration not just to non Muslims but are an inspiration to young Muslim reverts! Ya Ukhti you have done a grand job. You have a USP and have captured a huge market!
    Today I was on the BBC.co.uk site and read about a guy who had a cult following on his blog of 35,000 for blogging about Doughnuts! Guess what? You are even better! You never know, the way you are picking up speed, one day they might feature your blog too! Wouldn't that be superb, insha'Allah!

    You are amazing. Keep going. Keep fighting. May Allah enable you to continue and may He free your family from this fitna. These people are followers of the worst of all creations and some are masters of deceit and trickery. You sister are now following the greatest of creations! Subhan'ALLAH!

    Never Give Up! Someone is out there seeing what you see! Someone out there is slowly waking up! What an amazing thought! And you could be responsible for that! WOW! You are blessed and I envy you (in a good way).

    Nice song. Nice message to it. Goodluck with turning your ex cultees into celebrities!

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  25. @ mir- thank you.

    @ the sister who requested I don't post her comment- jzkAllah!! Thank you and I will definitely look into what you have suggested! :)

    @ qadianis... Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla. No hadith? Bla bla bla bla bla bla! Bring me the hadith or just bog off! Simples.

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  26. what a service of islam finding is doing excellent but think for a moment she has just started and if this service to islam was so fantastic Mir sahib then the so called Ulema etc of Pakistan would have been rewarded by now, sorry yes they are rewarded not by blessing but Qahar. I worry for you finding please stop this for your own sake not for ahmadis you belong to sunbathing, clubbing enjoying night life you have nothing to do with religion let alone ahmadiat

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  27. I think Qadianis have accepted their defeat to find a Hadith mentioning Promised Messiah emergence in 14th century. Now they want to repeat their old claim of declaring him Mujaddid of 14th Century. How many Titles this Man from Qadian had? Mujaddid, Mehdi, Messih Maoud, Nabi?

    I wish Qadianis know what a Mujaddid is and then decide Mirza was a biggest enemy of Islam or a Reformer of Islam.

    It is in detail but they need to read Taqi Usmani answer to someone who asked about the Hadith mentioning Mujadids and who they are.

    http://maqasid.wordpress.com/2009/01/28/the-meaning-of-the-word-mujaddid-by-mufti-muhammad-taqi-usmani-2/

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  28. The whole Mirzayat has collapsed and Mirzais are banging their heads with the walls. The only way the Cult can survive is by burning all the books of false Messiah and his sons. The distorted and twisted statements in the books will haunt them and make them laughing stock. They should change their Mission to be a Chanda jamat as visioned by their "great visionaries" to register it as a Charity organization in Europe and America/Canada. They knew the purpose and use of their "religion" - Collect charity by fooling Some and make it a source of living for Mirza family and their cronies. So don't waste proving a religion wrong and absurd which was just a fake religion from the beginning and its authors very well knew that it is only for minting money from some fool followers. Stop paying Chanda or ask where it is spent and see how Jamat expels you out.

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  29. @ findings come on you are not going to stop that and if you do not allow than you are convinced on what I have said for which i am happy as you would start thinking

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  30. if you are so well awre of jammat system of being expelled from jummat than you would know that what other punishment jummat gives before being expelled .
    let me tell Jummat stops accepting chanda.
    I hope this to go through as my posts are not being allowed

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  31. > Ah findings your not allowing my comments well all my
    > Ahmadi Muslim brothers and sisters are enjoying you
    > lack of response to my questions. where is the reformer
    > of both 13th and 14th century !!!!

    Look brother (sister?), I'm Ahmadi as well but even I can see that you're trying to change the subject ("move the goalposts"). Why should sister Findings answer your question when we haven't even answered hers?

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  32. Why is the topic being changed?

    Find the hadith or recognize that Ahmadiyya is false.

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  33. Nice work Findings. Mirza has been nailed to a cross in this thread. I'm loving it. The boasting of the Mirza...

    The Rash

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  34. @ farhan there is no change in topic it is about truth and lie we as ahmadis can well understand your level of faith and your tunnel vision as your whole faith rely on proving one hadith then you are better not be part of ahmadi community because some other day you will come with another interpretation of your own and challenge so my sincere advice to you as well is cool down enjoy life for get about ahmadiat or even islam before its to late and you loose everything

    ReplyDelete
  35. @ findings thanks for allowing that is the true spirit of islam which teaches you to express your point of view and convince people on that rather than objecting on other religions and faith

    ReplyDelete
  36. I am dumbfounded and speechless at how bloody stupid these Ahmadis are!Where is the Hadith Cult Girl has asked for? Why are they bringing up everything and anything under the sun, just to avoid what is obvious here: There is no Hadith! 13th Century, 14th Century or 21st Century Fox.. where is the Hadith? Before any discussions about the Mujahids is brought up, go bring up the Hadith first!If you incapable of producing it: shut up or then scurry away and accept this clown lied and lied in the name of Nabi saws and his beloved companions. This is not an ordinary lie! No one is telling you not to continue following this clown by all means, please do, its a free world! But please stop forcing this 'true Islam' nonsense down everyone's throats! The only true Islam is the One Islam and that is the religion of Allah and His most favoured creation! Who was this? The last and final Messenger, Muhammad Saws!Ps: Great changes Cult Girl and a great challenge!

    ReplyDelete
  37. @ anoymous you have described yourself beautifully dumbfounded and speechless, alas i cannot write arabic here and quote the verse of Holy Quran I am wiating when are you going to loose your sight as well

    ReplyDelete
  38. @ "Anonymous" worried about the identity of mujaddids

    While I fear I may be helping you in diverting the topic, I will still like to show how you make no sense

    To us Muslims the Hadith about Mujaddid in the beginning of EVERY century is a consolation for the true believers that Allah will keep raising men to defend Islam of all corruption and to keep the spirit of unity alive.

    We are not particularly bothered about the identity of those men. We respect and adore all the noble work for Islam without getting into the discussion if the people doing it were/are mujaddids or not.

    In the words of the 19th century C.E. scholar Rashid Ahmad Gangohi;

    "[Also,] it is NOT established [with proof that it is possible] to know specifically who they are (i.e., mujaddids). Some scholars have, in their ESTIMATE and opinion, considered a mujaddid whoever they saw [fit] amongst the muhaqqiqs (research scholars, authorities). Thus, after the [time of the] Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace), upon the conclusion of the first century, the majority have considered ‘Umar ibn ‘Abdul ‘Aziz (may Allah be pleased with him) [the mujaddid of that time]. Upon the conclusion of the second century some have said it was Shafi’i (may Allah have mercy on him) and some said it was someone else. NONE of these opinions are established [with proof"

    This is the difference between a cult and a true faith. true faith inspires one to take the underlying message, a cult makes one stick to rather useless details, for such things alone can be exploited to raise cults.

    By the way, according to Mirza Khuda Baksh Qadiani, 1) Syed Ahmad Barelwi, 2) Shah Abdul Aziz and 3) Shah Ismail Shaheed 4) Shah Rafiuddin 5) Shah Abdul Qadir were the Mujaddids of the 13th century ... ('Asl Musaffa, p.120)

    Even in your good belief will you consider anyone among the above like MGA? i.e. was any of them a prophet? is the denial to accept any of them as a mujaddid a sin? did anyone of these make separate communities like the Ahmadiyya?

    Mirza Qadiani in total disagreement to all the people recognized as mujaddids by the Ahmadis, came up with new beliefs. and thus corrupted the faith and actually made last ditch effort to shatter the unity of the ummah. Nothing like a mujaddid! Actually he was not even worthy to be recognized as a sane person in the first place
    ----

    If you cannot show the hadith demanded, and for a surety you cannot, then its a time for you to reconsider the decision to keep dragging yourself with this cult!

    ReplyDelete
  39. @ sister findings

    we all see their filthy language for you. While it further exposes the reality of the cult, it should in turn make you more firm. you are following the sunnah of the prophets by bearing with all these abuses.

    la tahzan inna Allaha ma'ana
    Grieve not. verily Allah is with us.

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  40. @waqar akbar are you really worried that a small cult of ahmadis can shatter the unity of so called Ummah, if so rest assure the so called Ummah does not need ahmadiyat to shatter there unity. There unity is self explanatory

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  41. @ waqar akbar if by few words of filthy language you feel that ALLAH is with you good than think about those who are not only ready but giving there life and dying only because they are ahmadis

    ReplyDelete
  42. Bro Rationalist over at the cult.info forums found this very interesting video of Mas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hykjFllR0w&feature=related

    As you can see Mas also retells the same lie as his great-great-daddy!! How dare he attribute this false saying to the prophet Muhammad SAAWs.

    Ahmadis.. I'm demanding an explanation from you about this bare-faced lie.. where are these sahih ahadith?? Everyone is still waiting!!

    ReplyDelete
  43. @findings well well well you are losing temper
    " demanding explanation"?
    take it easy you will get that but not in form of a comment, post or email so again my sincere advice to you will be to seek forgiveness from ALLAH for your sins if you are a Muslim?. Do not ruin yourself in repulsion to indivivual acts
    May ALLAH forgive your sins

    ReplyDelete
  44. Come again? ^

    Give me the Hadith or don't bother commenting. Its really that simple.

    Prove your Prophet did not lie! It's a major sin to attribute a false saying to The Prophet SAAWs... So prove he didn't! And not just him, your Khalifa too! Where is this so called Hadith? How will I get it, if its not in the form of a comment or an email? Is it going to magically appear?

    Demand aint angry.. Cool it! Thanks for your advice...

    ReplyDelete
  45. @findings read this link this is holy Quran and I can assure you that it is not an ahmmmadiyya site
    35;4 no 9


    http://www.quranenglish.com/tafheem_quran/035-1.htm

    ReplyDelete
  46. There is no such hadith and MGAQ is a proven Liar - not at one occasion - he is a proven Liar for all his so called divine prophesies and the most shocking of these was making prophecy to marry Mohammadi Begum - which ruined him physically mentally and emotionally. If he was not a sane person, he would have a second thought on his claim to be Nabi - when all his God told prophesies were proving wrong. He should have considered for a moment - who is whispering this all to me - may be Satan. It can't be GOD who tells me something and it never becomes true and the same "God" put in my mint to twist the prophecy meanings to shut people mouth who doubts my claim. He was constantly using opium and remained under the spell of Satan who whispered him "Satanic revelations" to misquote Quran, Hadith, announce false prophesies, make false claims to be Mahdi, Issa, Muhammad, Krishna - and you name it as he change his name from Ghulam Ahmad to Ahmad. From slave of Muhammad (Ahmad) to Ahmad himself. He claimed the Ahmad mentioned by Hazrat Issa was actually him forgetting his parents made him Ghulam(slave) of that Ahmad who Essa(as) prophesied to come as last prophet. Did Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) prophesied about a Ghulam Ahmad coming as Prophet? This is what sister Finding is questioning - find me that Hadith which you are referring in your Prophesy. No doubt Mirza Qadiani was under total influence of Satan and had no idea of it as he was always using opium and other drugs for his numerous physical ailments.

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  47. I have a serious question from Qadianis (no pun as Mirza proudly claims that God named him Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani so why Qadianis feel this title to be derogatory?)

    ‘And Allah has kept my name as Ghulam Ahmad QADIANI’
    Ruhani Khazain V.13 Kitaab ul Bahriyah p.258

    The question is Cult receives so much monthly Chanda from its members. And it is registered as a Charity organization in U.K. Does it come to the rescue of members in need? Is it a social welfare jammat offering helping hand to members when they lose job or can't support themselves or family or get seriously sick or disabled? Does jammat has system to support needy cult members or it is a One way traffic of collecting compulsory chanda but no return if one really needs jammat help.

    May be the blessed one whom ALLAH has provided chance to leave the cult may answer it more honestly.

    ReplyDelete
  48. This comment will probably be never approved, but it amuses me how deep you are in hypocrisy. How can you call me to God (or true Islam) when all you’re doing is demonising and making fun of human beings in general. It’s all about equality of all, and not supremacy of some. Look at you and your followers cheering at degrading individuals; you have truly invented yourself your own religion – which my friend is shirk!

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  49. Iam still waiting for my Answer

    WHERE IS THE REFORMER OF 13TH AND 14TH CENTURY!!!!!

    and for my Ahmadi Brother who seem to think I have shifted the goal post, that not the case!!! I am trying to establish a point before I prove that the Promised Messiah claim of being that Messiah mentioned in Sahih Ahadith

    Khalid bin Waleed

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  50. ^ All Ahmadiyya does is talk about how bad Muslims are, and how we're all 'mullahs', violent-prone and other such ad hominems. If you dislike Finding's approach, perhaps you should look in the mirror.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Farhad!

    Since when is calling a liar, A LIAR, is shirk? Shirk is believing in someone as god when he is not GOD.

    Mirza Qadiyani writes in his book (May God Forbid)

    “I dreamt that I my self am God. I believed that I was God.”

    (Aina-e-Kamalat Islam. P.564, Roohani Khazain V.5 . P.564)

    “In a revelation I saw that I was God and I believed that I was so.”

    (Kitab-el-Biria P.85, Roohani Khazain V.3.P.103)

    This is time of weeping and not time of cheering. We are in fact weeping on the faith and future of misled, not cheering the degraded individuals who believe a mentally sick person as their prophet and then claim to be Muslims also. Mirza tried to invent his own religion within Islam but just proved to be a laughing stock. Satan ditches you in the hell fire and then smile on his success. He must not be smiling on Mirza's ditching but boasting on his remarkable success - that by conquering Mirza, he conquered thousands without any effort - and then ironically these thousands bonded qadianis pay monthly chanda for being chained and trapped by Satan.

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  52. oh fool why dont you show the explanation that the Promised Messiah gave about these dreams and how how he said!!!! that his opponents would accuse him of claiming to be God, why you did not show this!!!!

    not that Findings will allow this.

    Khalid bin Wahleed



    " Mirza Qadiyani writes in his book (May God Forbid)

    “I dreamt that I my self am God. I believed that I was God.”

    (Aina-e-Kamalat Islam. P.564, Roohani Khazain V.5 . P.564)

    “In a revelation I saw that I was God and I believed that I was so.”

    (Kitab-el-Biria P.85, Roohani Khazain V.3.P.103)

    ReplyDelete
  53. @ anonymous another link about MG being a liar nauzobillh
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnDXUOgIja4

    ReplyDelete
  54. Khalid Bin Waleed - You seem very eager to know the 13th and 14th Centuries Mujaddids. I understand your restlessness. Either you want to claim Mirza Qadiani was a Mujaddid of 13th and 14th century or you are genuinely curious to know if no one has claimed - then let us put Mirza there. My dear friend, first try to understand what Mujaddid is by reading the link, then Google, you will find more than person for both centuries named as Mujaddid and may be true. But Mujaddid never claims to be a Mujaddid but Mirza made that self-claim also. And by doing so he denied himself that he is not even the Mujaddid - forget for a moment the rest of claims he made for himself. Now read this link to understand yourself how far was Mirza from being a Mujaddid as he claimed or Qadianis believe he was.



    Then google and select any one of your choice as Mujaddid. If you are still stuck with Mirza then I can be just sorry with your luck. You are then doomed to go where your "Mujaddid" went.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Mohsin...

    If you want to bring me close to God, teach me the difference between cult and true faith, why do I have to see impressions of "Photoshoped" images of individuals who are fathers, brothers and uncles to some one. Why do I need to be shown random young youths because of whom you are labeling this faith a cult. Why do I need to be told about a song of the day, in order for me to find out what the true status of Ahmadies are?

    If you want to pin out the behavior of some people, fabricate it and declare the system within which they live a cult, then what different are you to those who declare Islam to be the religion that makes it essential to bomb and commit suicide in the name of God.

    Before you try to tell the others the "truth", I would like to ask you to ask yourself "am I really doing this out of sincerity and for the benefit of others? am I doing it in the way our prophet (sw) would have approved it? am I treating everyone with the respect and equality that I would want to happen to me?" "am I actually even praying for my people that I want to bring closer to God/Islam?"

    If you can answer these questions, then I will be more than happy for you to bring me closer to God.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Findings - I must say this for you

    pasban mil gaye kaabe ko sanam khane sey

    ReplyDelete
  57. well I cant see my link which i have send why was this not allowed.

    worried about the truth ?

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  58. Don't post links just post the Hadith! Scared of the Truth?? (Or lack of it!!)

    I want the Hadith. End of.

    I will buy you a box of chocolates for your troubles if you manage to find the Phantom Hadith!!!

    Run along now and go find it like a good boy.

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  59. watch the link after which there should be no doubt about Mirza sahib honesty as people discussig are far more knowledgeable than @findings and team, so again my sincere request to findings is forget and forgive

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  60. Is that the best you Ahmadis can do,Sister Findings gave you guys a week to find the Hadith and you and your jamaat could not come up with that because the Hadith was fabricated, all you do now is insult Findings, make useless points and as always shift blame on Muslims. Your administration and scholers were not bothered to find the Hadith and so why are you arguing with Findings, go and ask your jamaat where is the Hadith and why they did not bother to answer this very important question, don't take your failings on Muslims go and ask you jamaat for answers!!!! Rant Over!!!

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  61. well it seems you are fond of giving box of choclates to boys not so easy this time

    ReplyDelete
  62. Speaking as an Ahmadi, the level of discourse on this forum ON THE PART OF MY FELLOW AHMADIS is embarrassing. If we can't produce a simple Hadith (if the issue is one of interpretation and explanation), then why can't any of us set up a website with an explanation and link to it? Or, better yet, make a YouTube video that walks people through the rationality and the explanation.

    This rubbish that I'm seeing here from my Ahmadi brothers (people trying to distract from the core issue, asking questions are clearly meant to delay etc) truly bothers me. Either post something constructive or POST NOTHING AT ALL.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Farhad

    To know what is cult and how Qadianiat is a cult, please read this;

    http://ahmediorg.yuku.com/topic/3511/Why-Ahmadiyyah-Qadiani-is-a-CULT#.Tqdx6ZshUws

    May ALLAH let you know the truth!

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  64. Someone said here Mirza Qadiani clarified his claim of "being felt" God. But this is not the one false claim he made. And he always had interpretation of everything absurd he said.

    http://www.khatm-e-nubuwwat.org/english/qadiyaniat/21.htm

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  65. From Miyyan (Not Logged On):
    I HAVE FOUND THE REFERENCED FOR THE REQUIRED HADITH!!!!

    Here is the clue for Ahmadis to find out the vanished Hadith!!!

    Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Sahib has also informed us that where to look for the Hadith of Mahdi/Masiah to come in the 14th century. He said;

    “In a similar way there is a Sahi Hadith in ‘Darul Qutni’ which substantiate that the Mahdi and Masiah is going to come in the beginning of the 14th Century”
    (Ruhani Khazain, Volume 17, ‘Tuhfa Golravea’, page 132; http://www.alislam.org/urdu/rk/Ruhani-Khazain-Vol-17.pdf, PDF 167)

    As the search for the missing Hadith has been narrowed down now, I am expecting from any Ahmadi to produce the required Hadith now.

    Failure to do this will off course prove that Sister Findings has been claiming rightly that there is no Hadith existed! Come on Ahmadis prove her wrong! Only if you can find a simple Hadith from a specific Ahadith book! Can you dare?

    You don’t have to be a Murabi to find a referenced Hadith from ‘Darul Qutni’!!!! it can’t be easier than that!
    Good luck!

    ReplyDelete
  66. Quran: Does Allah not say in Quran that in one day faith would rise to Him and return and that one day is equaivalent to 1000 years here in the physicalworld of ours

    1000 years!

    Hadith: Doesnt Muhummad SAW messenger of Allah Himself say the best of centuries is my century then the ones who meet them and the one after that ......... 3 centuries= 300 years.

    Prophet SAW comes - 300 years pass - Then comes the DAY in which God raises faith.... = 1300 years= HOW DO WE KNOW THAT THESE 1000 years began after those 300 years after MUHAMMAD SAW?!?!!? CAUSE MUHAMMAD SAW has hadith stated below which hint at this rising of faith THE SAME RISING GOD SPEAKS OF IN QURAN. COHERENCE IS KEY HERE:

    Quran: " Surah 32:5 which says:“He regulates the affair from the heaven to the earth; then shall it ascend to Him in a day/period the measure of which is a thousand years of what you count.”

    Hadith: "(Q47:38) The Sahabah asked the Prophet , ‘O Prophet , who are these people that Allah has mentioned, that he would chose them instead of us? That they will not do as we did?’ The Prophet placed his hand on Salman’s thigh and said, ‘It will be his people. And even if faith is near the Surya (the Pleiads), someone from the Persians would attain it.’"

    Muhammad+300 years+1000 years+ comes the Messiah/Mahdi that God himself Promised to his Believers for guidance in latter days (of which the signs are plentiful in Hadith and have come to pass).

    Food for thought: God sent how many thousand prophets to Earth before Muhammad SAW?!
    Call me Logix

    ReplyDelete
  67. Jzks Bro Miyyan!

    Come on Qadianis...go find the Hadith!! Of course my blog won't close down- you guys lost that challenge- but I will buy you chocolates!

    No Hadith means total and absolute failure for you all as 'Ahmadis'.

    Prove your Prophet did not LIE and go find the Hadith!

    Simple instructions...

    @ anonymous above- thanks for your Tafsir and Maths lesson..but where is the HADITH?

    ReplyDelete
  68. "people will gather around hazrat mahdi (as) in the year 1400"
    (risalat al-hujur al-mahdi, p.108)

    ReplyDelete
  69. apparently your own mum was mentioning your blog at a recent gathering?

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  70. findings (not logged in)26 October 2011 at 12:36

    Yeah? probably!! My blog's on everyone's lips these days! Glad my mum is openly talking about it.. its for her I am doing all of this!! hoping she wakes up Insha'Allah!!! :) I love my muother!! May Allah swt save her before its too late Insha'allah.

    ReplyDelete
  71. In answer to this quote:

    "people will gather around hazrat mahdi (as) in the year 1400"
    (risalat al-hujur al-mahdi, p.108)

    MashAllah.. you provide me with a random quote from a random book.. no author.. no indication that this is even a hadith let alone a Sahih hadith.

    There are no chain of narrators even LOL. Furthermore, the rasul never referred to the mahdi with the title of 'Hazrat'..

    Are you Ahmadis even trying? I'm still waiting for a Sahih Hadith.. according to your Mirza there are many Sahih hadith that specifically mention the 'Promised Messiah' will appear in the 14th Century? Where are they?

    I don't want a mishmash of so-called random Ayahs twisted and altered and then added together with other unrelated hadith to make some random number of years plucked out of thin air.

    I want the sahih hadith that your Mirza spoke about and I quote again:

    "In many Saheeh Ahadith it is written that the Promised Messiah will arrive at the beginning of a century, and he will be the Reformer of the fourteenth century." (Ruhani Khazain, Volume 21, page 359; lines 11-12)

    Bro Miyyan even did your own homework for you and narrowed it down:

    “In a similar way there is a Sahih Hadith in ‘Darul Qutni’ which substantiate that the Mahdi and Masiah is going to come in the beginning of the 14th Century”
    (Ruhani Khazain, Volume 17, ‘Tuhfa Golravea’, page 132; http://www.alislam.org/urdu/rk/Ruhani-Khazain-Vol-17.pdf, PDF 167)

    So Mirza claims it's in the book 'Darul Qutni'. Amazing.. your work is almost done for you.. any Ahmadi please pick up the book and find this Sahih hadith in order to prove that your Mirza wasn't a liar.

    How more simple can it be?

    ReplyDelete
  72. Btw.. just gonna leave this quote from Mirza Ghulam Ahmad here:

    “And as to Ahadith about the arrival of Mahdi you know they are all Da’if and problematic contradicting one another so much so that in one narration in Ibn Majah and other books says, ‘There is no Mahdi except ‘Eisa, so how can one rest is his case on such kind of narrations with so much difference and contradictions, weakness and criticism on their narrators, as is not hidden from the scholars of Hadith?”

    (Humamtul Bushra pp.148-149 included in Rohani Khazain vol.7 pp.314-315)

    WOW.. Mirza really dug himself into a hole. If all ahadith about the Mahdi are Dai'f(weak) and problematic.. then how can there be Sahih hadith that talk about the mahdi coming in the 14th Century?!

    Ahmadis wake up and realise how much of a liar and how contradictory Mirza's writings were!

    If you choose not to wake up then provide me with the hadith (thereby also proving Mirza wrong based on the above quote). I'm still waiting...

    ReplyDelete
  73. "When one thousand and two hundred and forty years will pass, God will raise Mahdi."
    (An-Najmus Saqih, Vol. 2, p. 209)

    That's in the 4th century

    ReplyDelete
  74. Must read this to first understand who Mujaddid is before believing Mirza's claim to be Mujaddid.

    http://maqasid.wordpress.com/2009/01/28/the-meaning-of-the-word-mujaddid-by-mufti-muhammad-taqi-usmani-2/

    ReplyDelete
  75. @ Anonymous I've been sent this quote many times before.. i've tried to check the reference for this quote.. does this book even exist? LOL

    You have not provided the chain of narrators for this hadith for me to verify its authenticity, nor have you provided its classification (Sahih, daeef etc...) Nor have you provided me with the author of this book (An-najmus Saqih).

    This so-called hadith is not contained in any of the major books of hadth. Its not in bukhari, muslim, abu dawud, tirmidhi, ibn majah etc...

    I don't want some random quote that as far as anyone can tell could be completely made up.

    Come on ahmadis you can do better than this!

    A hadith needs to have a chain of narrators.. it needs to have a classification of authenticity.. and at the very least if you are going to quote from a random book then give me the author..

    Besides Mirza said the sahih hadith is contained in the sunan of Darul Qutni.. so hurry up browse through the book. Prove your profit wasn't a liar.

    ReplyDelete
  76. From: Miyyan (not logged on)

    Ahmadis Please! Don't even bother trying to find anything as an Authenticated Ahadith regarding Mahdi / Masiah as Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Sahib has already declared ALL OF them as fabricated. In other words 'NOT SAHI'! pROVE HIM WRONG AND PRODUCE THE REQUIRED HADITH. I am afraid you can never come out of this victorious!!!! Try if you can!!!!

    Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Sahib on the Sahi Ahadith regarding the Mahdi / Masiah;

    “However, just as all scholars of hadith say, I also concur: that ALL ahadith about the Promised Mahdi are injured and doubtful and NOT EVEN ONE OF THEM IS CORRECT. And the fabrication that has gone into these Ahadith no other hadith was subject to such fabrication. During the reign of the Abbasid Khalifas, the Khalifas wanted very much to declare themselves the Promised Mahdi. This is the reason why, in some Ahadith, they declare the Mahdi from Bani Abbas, and in others, declared him to be from Bani Fatima. And some ahadith even say that he is a man from my Ummah. In fact, all those Ahadith ARE NOT AT ALL reliable. This is not only my word, but the great scholars of the Sunni persuasion have been saying this all along." (RK Vol 21, p.356)

    Are you feeling lost not? Then start reading and examining his other claims and like me you will Inshallah find the truth! By the way I am a born Ahmadi and brought up in Rawbah, but still recognised the falsehood from the truthfulness. If I can so do you!

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  77. So way back in 2008, we had the same search of Saih Hadith and Qadiyanis also used to quote same from unknown books like An-Najmus Saqih (known to Qadiyanis only or they also just quoted since their elders quoted - I doubt any Qadiyani has written this book or even read it)

    The below is link for similar discussion and same references but no Authentic Hadith - no increase of knowledge in Qadianis and same ignorance?

    http://www.thecult.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=117&start=0

    ReplyDelete
  78. Why Mirza was not a consistent Liar? Did he use to forget what he said or wrote earlier or was he fooled by Satan to believe ILLhamat (Satan's whispers)?

    http://www.thecult.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10

    (above question came in mind reading Brother Fuad's above linked topic)

    ReplyDelete
  79. @ anonymous born ahmadi in Rabwah
    ther is a famous urdu sayin

    shetaan ke ghar wali, wali ke ghar shetaan

    ReplyDelete
  80. Mohsin you said


    But Mujaddid never claims to be a Mujaddid.

    How stupid how will he know he is a Mujaddid unless Allah (swt) infomers him lol

    But I take that as you all cannot not answer the question, therefore naauzubillah have you proven the Holy Prophet (saw) wrong!!! ( Iknow the Holy Prophet spoke always the truth so a Mujaddid must have come in the 13th and 14th century but who were they please tell!!!

    peace

    Khalid Bin Waleed

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  81. Dear Brother or Sister with repect I don't believe your that you are Ahmadi because you would not have written such well in your words " Rubbish" we can produce many Ahadith but we have make our case but please you try!!! if not and you are truly an Ahmadi be quite and us who what they are doing do our Job.


    Anonymous said...
    Speaking as an Ahmadi, the level of discourse on this forum ON THE PART OF MY FELLOW AHMADIS is embarrassing. If we can't produce a simple Hadith (if the issue is one of interpretation and explanation), then why can't any of us set up a website with an explanation and link to it? Or, better yet, make a YouTube video that walks people through the rationality and the explanation.

    This rubbish that I'm seeing here from my Ahmadi brothers (people trying to distract from the core issue, asking questions are clearly meant to delay etc) truly bothers me. Either post something constructive or POST NOTHING AT ALL.

    ReplyDelete
  82. Speaking as an non- Ahmadi, the level of discourse on this forum ON THE PART OF MY FELLOW NON-AHMADIS is embarrassing. If we cannot accept simple truth (if the issue is one of interpretation and explanation), then why can't any of us set up a website with an explanation and link to it? Or, better yet, make a YouTube video that walks people through the rationality and the explanation.

    This rubbish that I'm seeing here from my non Ahmadi brothers (people trying to distract from the core issue, asking questions are clearly meant to delay etc) truly bothers me. Either post something constructive or POST NOTHING AT ALL.

    ReplyDelete
  83. Www.awaitedmahdi.com/article.php?id=15076
    There are many Hadith Which are queted by Sunni ulmah
    Don't say know they are wrong as well.

    ReplyDelete
  84. @ Anonymous if there are soooo many of these hadith, then don't post some random link.. simply quote me the sahih hadith that proves your prophet didn't lie. How hard can it be.. I'm still waiting!

    ReplyDelete
  85. Just see the link

    ReplyDelete
  86. U know what u "stink"

    ReplyDelete
  87. I've seen the link and it contains no sahih hadith.. just the same old quotes that others have already sent it with no chain of narrators, no authors of the so-called books these quotes are meant to be from and no way to verify that these quotes (because they definitely aren't hadith) even exist.

    And please don't bring my personal hygiene into this.. just find me the sahih hadith please :)

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  88. Those quotes of Hadith are not my own they are quoted by Sunni ullemah and don't say they are liar as well. The problem with u are u don't want to lose like small kids and now u start crying. First u said sahih Hadith then u u've said any Hadith. Now u've got some and u don't want to accept so u just change ur words. Now tell me who is a liar mirza ghulam ahmed sahib, Sunni ullemah or u. Be realistic. Think before write something.

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  89. @ Anonymous I have a feeling English is not your first language and so your reading comprehension skills may be lacking.

    Those quotes of so-called Hadith have never been quoted by Sunnis.. If they were the burden of proof is on you to show me. Regardless.. the challenge is simple I want someone to produce the Sahih Hadith your 'Prophet' spoke about. I'm still waiting.. It's gonna be 2 weeks soon.

    Also.. I've ALWAYS maintained I want a SAHIH Hadith as per the writings of your Mirza.. so please don't make crap up by saying I change my words.

    Now run along and try harder this time.. I'm sure you don't want to let down your 'Propet'. Find me just one of the many Sahih Hadith he claimed are out there. You don't want him to look like a liar now.. do you? :-)

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  90. Khalid bin Waleed - Try to understand who are Mujaddid by reading this.

    http://maqasid.wordpress.com/2009/01/28/the-meaning-of-the-word-mujaddid-by-mufti-muhammad-taqi-usmani-2/

    Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was last Nabi and not Mujaddid. He did not do Tajdeed of Din but completed the Din. It was only MGAQ who claimed to be all in one. ALLAH communicates with Nabi and not Mujaddid. If someone like MGAQ claims to be a Mujaddid (no Mujaddid claims himself to be a Mujaddid) and then says angel Jibbrel or other angels are coming to him and communicate, be assured, he is a sick, liar and totally misled by Satan who is coming to him and whisper. MGAQ was same type of "mujaddid".

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  91. Hello Findings,

    I am writing as an independent Ahmadi, trying to make sense of the passage that you have quoted. I know that you have a particular agenda in raising this issue, and so i suspect that what i say will not make any difference. But let's assume that you are genuinely interested in what Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad meant.

    However, i would like to make some preliminary comments (and once again i emphasise that these are my personal thoughts):

    1. There is no reference in the original Urdu text to the word 'many'. All that the original text says is that within the sahih hadith (plural), it is mentioned that the Promised Messiah (PM) will come at true head of the century. So, all an Ahmadi needs to show is one hadith (and in fact, that is all you have asked for). I am not sure where you have got that English translation from, but even if it is an Ahmadi translation, then it is wrong in this respect.
    2. The bit about the fourteenth century is in another sentence. There is a full stop before and after it. If you read the sentences before, HMGA is giving one sign after another, and they are not necessarily connected. So, i believe that an Ahmadi does not have to show from this passage that there is a hadith with the words 'fourteenth century' in them.

    OK, now we come to the real question-what sahih hadith did HMGA have in mind when he made the statement that the PM will come at the head of the century. Well quite clearly the hadith about mujaddid coming at the head of each century and reforming the faith (which you have obviously come across before). Now i agree with you that there is no specific hadith that says that the PM will come at the head of the century. But i honestly don't think that HMGA is saying this. Why? Well, HMGA goes on in another part of his writing to explain this. He writes: (continued)

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  92. “Among the arguments in decisive Hadith reports which confirm the authenticity
    and truth of the claim of this writer is also the report regarding the appearance of
    mujaddids which finds a place in Abu Daud and Mustadrik, i.e. for this Umma a
    mujaddid would appear at the head of every century, and would reform the faith
    according to the needs of the Muslims. The words ‘he will reform for them’ in this
    report show clearly that at the head of every century a mujaddid will come who will
    reform the prevailing evils.

    Now when a fair-minded man ponders carefully as to what were the most dangerous evils
    prevailing at the head of the fourteenth century, for whose reform the Mujaddid had to have
    the powers, then it is clearly found that the very great evil which destroyed hundreds of
    thousands of people is the evil of the Christian preachers. No intelligent man and
    sympathiser of Islam will deny that it should be the main duty of the Mujaddid of this
    century to break the cross and destroy the arguments of the Christians. When the breaking
    of the cross is the duty and work of the Mujaddid of the fourteenth century, then it has to be
    admitted that he himself is the Promised Messiah, for according to the Hadith reports it is
    also the sign of the Promised Messiah that he will be the Mujaddid of the century and his work
    would be to break the cross. In any case, if the present-day Muslim religious leaders reflect,
    while adhering to honesty and religion, then they will most certainly have to admit that the
    work of the Mujaddid of the fourteenth century is the breaking of the cross. And since this is
    the work which is reserved for the Promised Messiah, hence it follows, of necessity, that the
    Mujaddid of the fourteenth century must be the Promised Messiah.”

    So, what HMGA has done is used inference to further explain what he thinks has happened
    and to expand on the meaning of the hadith, in light of other prophecies regarding the coming
    of the Messiah. To him, the PM would appear at the head of the century (because that's
    when the hadith says mujaddids would appear), so it only seems natural to him that the
    PM would be such a reformer. Then he goes on to give his reasons as to why the PM would
    be the reformer of the fourteenth century (but this is a separate sentence, and does not fall
    under the hadith). HMGA is bringing together the various themes found in hadith and other
    parts of Islamic theology.

    To put it in other words, all that HMGA wants to say is something like this 'Likewise, from the
    Sahih hadith, we can say/infer that the Promised Messiah would come at the head of the century'.

    I suspect you will disagree but I hope that is at least an attempt at an explanation!

    Best wishes.

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  93. Typo in first post-meant the not true head of century.

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  94. @ platosnores.. Thanks for your comment.. but your analysis is wrong.. Mirza WAS talking about the messiah coming at the start of the 14th century. Check the reference below:

    "In a similar way there is a Sahi Hadith in ‘Darul Qutni’ which substantiate that the Mahdi and Masiah is going to come in the beginning of the 14th Century”
    (Ruhani Khazain, Volume 17, ‘Tuhfa Golravea’, page 132; http://www.alislam.org/urdu/rk/Ruhani-Khazain-Vol-17.pdf, PDF 167)

    He also specifically mentions that this sahih Hadith is in 'Darul Qutni'.. I'm still waiting for the Hadith to materialise (hint- it doesn't exist).. but please pick up a copy of sunnan darul qutni and show me this sahih Hadith :-)

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  95. Further to the above.. It's funny how prophecies and statements that your mirza made that turned out false are always justified by saying "he wanted to say something else" LOL.

    If he meant to say "we can infer...etc.." why didn't he just go ahead and say that? You don't need to correct the words of your prophet as I'm sure he knew better than you what he meant to say. After all he was the self styled Sultanul Qalam! Did the cat catch his tongue (pen) this time?

    Whichever way you want to try to spin it.. what mirza said is plainly false as you clearly attest.. there is NO sahih Hadith he lied and plain and simple.

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  96. Findings,

    I’m really sorry but I honestly think that you have got the wrong end of the stick about this issue.

    In my previous post, I gave you a long excerpt from another part of HMGA’s writings, in which he clearly builds up this argument about the PM coming at the head of the century. In that excerpt, the authentic hadith that HMGA is referring to is clearly referenced and accepted. I think I also now accept your argument that HMGA is trying to make an argument from the hadith about the importance of the fourteenth century. Now what I am arguing for is that HMGA does not have to repeat the full argument every time he mentions this. What he has quoted in the paragraph under discussion is simply his conclusion-that from the hadith one can infer that the Messiah will come at the head of the century and will be the reformer of the fourteenth century. I’m not correcting his words at all, all I am saying is that when you look at his writings at a whole, and look at the excerpt above that I quoted, HMGA is building up a case.

    OK, I have had a look at that link that you sent me and read it in the orginal urdu text. HMGA has clearly mentioned the hadith he is referring to: ‘For the Mahdi, there will be two signs…’. So this is the hadith about the eclipses. Are you saying that this hadith does not exist? Also you say that this is a sahih hadith, but nowhere in the link does HMGA say such. He then goes to explain in detail why he thinks that the Messiah/Mahdi/Mujaddid is coming in the fourteenth century. I’m sorry but this link further supports my case that in the sentence under discussion, a cumulative case is being built up from both the hadith and the sahih hadith, that the Messiah will come in this way. You know, when these eclipses happened as per the hadith, many people accepted the truth of HMGA and shed tears, because they were already aware of this particular sign.

    If what you say about HMGA is correct, that he really did mean that there is a (or many) sahih hadith that specifically says that the Messiah will come at the start of the fourteenth century, then there are two reasons why I think this is not correct. Firstly, it would be really quite easy to go to the books of sahih hadith and disprove this point! Secondly, in the other explanatory passages, for example the excerpt I gave earlier and the link you provided in your reply, he would have made it more obvious. Yet what these passages show is that HMGA is building up a case and taking care to explain why he thinks this might be the conclusion of his argument.

    Finally, should I start calling you a plain and simple liar for attributing the words ‘sahih’ to the Darul Qutni reference, or the word ‘many’ to the head of the century reference?! I won’t and I will not use derogatory language to address you. Please, let’s just keep this discussion a bit more civilized and try and respect where each other might be coming from.

    Best wishes.

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  97. platosnores said..."You know, when these eclipses happened as per the hadith, many people accepted the truth of HMGA and shed tears, because they were already aware of this particular sign."

    Your Mirza twisted Quran's verses and Hadith texts to prove his false nabuwat (prophethood)

    Mirza Ghulam himself had written:
    "One Hadith of Dar-e-Qatni also proves that the Promised Mahdi will appear at the head of 14th Century; and that hadith is this ....translation of the whole hadith is:
    'There are two signs of our Mahdi; since the creation of earth and heaven this sign has not been revealed for any appointed and prophet and messenger; and those signs are that moon will eclipse in the first night "of its fixed nights" of eclipse and sun will get eclipsed in the middle "of the fixed days" for its eclipse, during the month of Ramadhan.'

    ...this hadith clearly fixes 14th Century." (Roohani Khazain, Vol. 17, P. 331)
    However, the actual hadith recorded in Dar-e-Qatni clearly reads:

    Narrated Amr son of Shamir, quoting Jabir, who quoted Mohammad bin 'Ali:
    "For our Mahdi, two signs are given which never occurred in the past from the creation of the heavens and the earth. One is that a lunar eclipse will occur on the first night of Ramadhan and the second sign is that a solar eclipse will occur in the middle of Ramadhan and these signs had never happened from the creation of the heavens and the earth." (Dar-e-Qatni, Vol. 1, P. 188)

    This saying clearly states that the lunar eclipse will happen in the beginning of the month of Ramadhan and the solar eclipse will occur in the middle of the month. However, this event is astronomically impossible and would be indeed miraculous if occurred.


    The lunar and solar eclipses Qadianis advance as the proof of their claim occurred on the 13th and 28th day of Ramadhan respectively! It is then obvious that Mirza Ghulam, as was his habit, purposely changed the quote (by adding the words "of its fixed nights") and twisted the true meaning of the hadith to lend appearance of legitimacy to his false claim. Furthermore, the hadith clearly states that this event has never occurred in the history, while the combination of eclipses on 13th and 28th of Ramadhan have occurred thousands of times throughout history.

    People must have really "shed tears" on the falsehood of Mirza Ghulam and the way "HMGA is building up a case" of a Liar Promised Messiah .

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  98. Thanks for your civil reply platosnores. I refer to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a liar, not just based on this specific issue, but on many issues. Which insha'Allah I will address in the coming weeks. But for now lets take your stance and look at his writings as a whole then shall we with regards to the issue of these ahadith?

    Your argument is that Mirza is building a case from multiple hadiths and inferring that the Messiah will come at the start of the 14th Century.

    Well.. well.. well.. it seems you're actually arguing against your own Prophet! I refer you to the following quote:

    “And as to Ahadith about the arrival of Mahdi you know they are all Da’if and problematic contradicting one another so much so that in one narration in Ibn Majah and other books says, ‘There is no Mahdi except ‘Eisa, so how can one rest his case on such kind of narrations with so much difference and contradictions, weakness and criticism on their narrators, as is not hidden from the scholars of Hadith?”

    (Humamtul Bushra pp.148-149 included in Rohani Khazain vol.7 pp.314-315)

    It can be found on page 150/151 of that actual pdf here:

    http://www.alislam.org/urdu/rkold/rk-7-21.pdf

    Are you actually trying to argue that Mirza is building a case based on the very hadith that he himself said are "Da’if and problematic contradicting one another" and then goes on to say that "how can one rest is his case on such kind of narrations with so much difference and contradictions"?

    I'd also like to remind you that all his Arabic writings are 'ilhami' as in Sirat al-Mahdi vol.1 p.91 Mirza Bashir Ahmad on the authority of Maulvi Sher Ali quotes Mirza to have said that all his Arabic writings are only a kind of revelation.

    So you see, you're in a no-win situation. Mirza's writings are soo contradictory and full of opposing views that if you argue one way you're actually gonna end up arguing against him :)

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  99. @Findings

    Do you beleive in secret society's such as Free Masons and Illuminati?

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  100. The mostn unislamic and cursed system of ahmadi is restrictions excommunications they must stop they are playing with fire respects of humzn beings destroying their reputation and family lives

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  101. Office bearers often use tazeer to set their own ego centric scores and punish disgrace innocent ahnadis and ask them letters of apologies yo fil files no sense of any spititualism behind this free masonism

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  102. Do you beleive in secret society's such as Free Masons and Illuminati?
    ------------------------------------------------

    That is one of the points of me questioning Mirza Ghulam, he says that we should obey the British government, but why would Allah say that to him when during that time most of the prime ministers of Britain were members of the secret society and some politicians of today are too. I guess not many people from the Ahmadi jamaat know about secret societies, free masonary!

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  103. That is one of the points of me questioning Mirza Ghulam, he says that we should obey the British government, but why would Allah say that to him when during that time most of the prime ministers of Britain were members of the secret society and some politicians of today are too. I guess not many people from the Ahmadi jamaat know about secret societies, free masonary!

    I personaly think Masoor (Khalifa) is a free mason and so was his master Gulam Mirza. These secret society's can be very brutal to their opponents as we have seen many past examples of their wickedness i.e. Malcolm X, Tupac, JFK and many others.

    May Allah protect sister findings and show all Qadiyanis the right path.

    Ameen

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  104. Their "dream" was to convert most of Muslims to Qadianiat and make their own government of what they call Ahmadiyya Islam. Yes, they were loyal to British Government to have their support - administrative & financial - to achieve their targets.

    But I doubt they would have joined or supported Free Masons. There own Jammat was no less than a local version of Free Masons.

    Now they have realized, majority of Muslims will never join them so their enmity and hostility towards Muslims have reached to a point where they will conspire with any one from an Institution or Governments to teach a lesson for not believing their Promised Messiah (I call him Punjabi Messih). They will leave no chance to inflict wounds on Muslims as whole and Pakistani Muslims in particular.

    So your suspicions have some weight. We need to be very careful of them.

    They are the ones because of we lost Gurdaspur - and in result Kashmir. I hope you are aware how it happened. if not, read here

    http://ahmediorg.yuku.com/topic/3925/Mirza-Mahmud-Ahmad-was-against-Creation-of-PAKISTAN?page=1#.TrboEPTDVGU


    http://irshad.org/info_m/news/takb1297.php

    Mohsin

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  105. @Mohsin

    Have a look at this site:

    http://www.cephasministry.com/nwo_maitraya_freemasonry.html

    Seek4Truth

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  106. @Seek4Truth

    Thanks for sharing. So he was meant to pave way for Dajjal (Maitreya).If Prophet Muhammad(saw) had not painted bad picture of Dajjal or had asked us to seek ALLAH's refuge from curse of Dajjal - our Punjabi Messih would not have hesitated to claim that title also. He invainly tried to break the Seal of Prophet but could not mislead Muslims except very few.

    I know one simple logic from Quran. All mankind is divided in to two categories - Hizb ALLAH & Hizb Shaiytan. All Hizb Shaiytan have a common cause and they are united to defeat people obedient to ALLAH.

    So the game is on. Let Dajjal also come and join them. This life is only a Test. The "success" here is not the "real success". Hizb Shaitan seems "strong and succeeding" at the moment as majority of people assuming themselves under the banner of Hizb ALLAH are either dormant or lost the right track.

    Whereas Hizb Shaytan is very organized and pursuing their Goals very effectively. This will continue until Muslims (Hizb ALLAH) will not wake up and start playing its designated Role - Guide people to Righteousness - but before they have to walk on Righteousness path.

    Until they will not, Shaytan will use Cults like Ahmadiyya to mislead mankind and keep than in Chaos.

    Imam Mehdi will not come to rescue those Muslims who are naming their sacrifical animals in the names of Indian actors and whose marriage functions present all from which ALLAH's Rasool stopped us.

    Yes, the Islam they believe is true Islam and not a distorted version like of Qadianis - but it is not in their life.

    In a nutshell, Islam of Muhammad Rasool ALLAH is perfect but Muslims may have all the imperfections.

    That does not justify the need of a False Prophet like Mirza Ghulam to "correct the Islam". Some real Mujaddids (not one - many) like of Ali Hajveri are required to "correct Muslims". Islam is "perfect" from day one and it will stay "perfect" until the last day. No new prophet or new modifications in Islam are required.

    So MGAQ will be a BIG NO for all Muslims till the end even they are victimized by this Hizb Shaytan in which Ahmadiyya Cult is an active member.

    Thank you again as you prompted me to write this.

    Mohsin

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  107. what is wrong with this person?
    you said, i quote, 'and consider that maybe, just maybe, there are even da'eef ahadith out there that state what he claims....we are even willing to settle for that too'

    and hen when confronted about it you said this, 'Also.. I've ALWAYS maintained I want a SAHIH Hadith as per the writings of your Mirza.. so please don't make crap up by saying I change my words.'

    You're confused

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  108. @sister findings.
    really good work,qadiyani can never answer your challenge.
    another interesting thread which proves mgaq a big liar.

    http://z8.invisionfree.com/forumz1835/index.php?showtopic=4406

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